I keep ending up in a rage with MIL - how do I cope?

[ZaphodBeeblerox]

I've had a previous thread on her about my MIL and had some useful suggestions on here which I attempted to use. Just a short recap : MIL and I have a fairly difficult relationship. She's widowed and lives on her own in south asia where both my husband and I are originally from. She visits for 4-6 weeks at a time, and in previous years (when I was in fulltime work) it was fine for the most part. In the past two years however, her visits have been timed around me being on mat leave. This year she's obviously here to see her first grandchild; last year she came when I was on leave after suffering a loss at term. Both visits have been excruciating. I have PND and postnatal anxiety and am getting some help for it (but she doesn't know about the diagnosis I think). There are a number of different issues - her sexist views (expecting me to pick up after her but her son not to have to lift a finger), her habit of saying thoughtless hurtful things under the excuse of "I didn't mean it" and so on. Most recently we've ended up having a massive fight nearly every few weeks which has not ended well.

I love my husband and he's a good egg. However, I'm realising he has trouble drawing boundaries with his family because of the way they react if anyone calls them out on it. Following my therapists suggestion that I replace my aggression with assertiveness, I tried most recently when she annoyed me to just address the issue in the moment. When playing with the baby, as soon as my husband left the room she asks DS (8 mos old) "Oh is mummy not smiling at you".. this is after previous instances where she keeps saying things like "Oh is mummy ignoring you.. are you sad mummy's not picking you up" etc. She always plays innocent when I call her out on it, and says its just a "cultural thing", and I'm being petty and oversensitive. And my DH at the end of his patience with these repeated fights just asks me why I need to fight every statement rather than letting it go. My issue is that I feel certain she'll repeat statements like these to my child when he's older and make me feel worse about leaving him in childcare 9-5 so I can work. And I think the cultural issue is bs cover for piling onto my guilt. Its funny how none of these cultural memes involve guilting the dad or making fun of the dad in any way.

Anyway, she lost it and basically refused to come visit us any more and said her son can just come visit her if he wants. Essentially cutting off the only grandchild she has because I said she needs to watch what she says in front of him. Clearly there's more of a backstory - this isn't by far the vilest thing she's said but don't want to make the OP longer than it is. I then caved and spoke to her in a conciliatory (although not apologetic) manner just to stop her from going NC because the person who'll be hurt by this is my husband. And if he sees us being close to my family (who are very kind and bend over backwards to help us out) but not speaking to his family (who make v little effort), he'll feel bad.

So how do I cope with being made to feel like a mug. Having processed this over the past few days I feel like she's just using her victimhood as a way to get me to toe the line so I'll be scared to ever point out her faults in the future. And she's perpetuating this trope that I am the bad person. Essentially whatever I do, she only remembers the bad things; whereas if I point out anything hurtful she's said or done then I've misunderstood or I'm lying.

I'm looking for some insights into how to handle her behaviour without cutting her off; how to cope internally with her toxicity; and generally how people manage without going NC. Sorry for the very long OP!

My therapist is currently on holiday, need to have a conversation with her in more detail once she's back (in a week). I have mentioned some of these things to her (and she is of a similar cultural background so gets it iyswim).

Writing here has been really helpful, just for me to put down my thoughts rather than having them swirling around in my mind and just feeling v upset but unclear on why.

DH and I had a longer conversation yesterday and he kind of gets it I think. He's always going to feel his mother "means well", and some of the justifications he uses for his own mental peace of mind are sad sometimes. He's v clear that she favours her other son over him, has always just put him down and never offered a positive word or encouragement, and so he just feels this is how people are, and despite all this "knows" that she loves him therefore excuses all of it. So finds it odd that I am upset by these words or they affect me so deeply. And that all of these things in a different context can be taken differently. Even the comment after the stillbirth right, he's like "she was alone, and had just received a massive shock, so just spouted whatever rubbish was in her mind". He's so used to excusing atrocious behaviour like this from her.

Apart from this he is a wonderful husband and a very loving dad and just a good human being, so I don't want to leave him, and effectively let her win. He realises it's his job in the future to protect me, and in his defence he has never been around for any of the things she has said, but has tried taking my side nonetheless in bringing these up with her. For the csection comment she first claimed to have never said it and then later said we both must have just misunderstood. And then it got caught up in discussions of so many other things that it never got fully addressed.

She is now trying v hard to make nice with big enthusiastic effusive texts every day; and to be fair is probably missing having her son and granddaughter around after nearly 3 months of being around family and now suddenly all alone in a big house. I'm going to stick to my strategy of not being alone with her. She doesn't like me so why should she want to be alone with me anyway? And now all I want is a few months of just not interacting/engaging with or fighting about his stupid family because honestly its been months of this.

Thank you for listening to me whinge, and for helping me realise I'm not being unreasonable in wanting better boundaries for myself. I am too soft on him, I am overprotective.. I feel like no one else in his life genuinely prioritizes his happiness above all else. But I think I'm realising he is responsible for his happiness, I can only protect mine and our baby's. If he wants to twist himself in knots to supposedly please his family (who probably won't even notice the sacrifices he is making) then that's his call.. I can only politely decline to participate.

Nanny cam/record on phone. When you have evidence give your husband the FOG book (I know one of the other posters will know the title).

Having the evidence will help but there will be a fall out too. Your husband is going to hurt, both for seeing how his mum really is and feeling like a fool for not believing it. This will not be easy and I am really sorry.

When you can I think marriage counselling might be a good idea. Ideally after your husband has seen the evidence but if that won't be for a while then before. I think if he sees how people outside the family react to some of her comments then it might give him z shame.

Very best of luck.

A shake*

Thinking about this more today - if I'm completely honest I must admit I find my inlaws very difficult, and so I harp on examples of their thoughtlessness. The low-level continual irritations - if my sister or mum did the same things I probably wouldn't be bothered. So I feel like I'm expending a lot of energy keeping tabs on all the thoughtless things they do in order to win points over my husband.

I genuinely don't want to cut him off from his family or impoverish his life in any way. And being fair, I know the egregious things are horrible, but the general low-level idiotic things my MIL says are probably not worthy of fighting or breaking up our marriage. I'm going to take a deep breath and just let all this stuff go. And try again with these new strategies in place. His family, his time, no expectations that I pretend to be all happy families with them, but he can be as warm to them as he chooses and I'm always going to be supportive of a relationship.

This weekend, for example, I didn't once remind him to call his brother. His brother and SIL rarely initiate phone calls so now it'll be over a fortnight since they've seen the baby or spoken to him. Not my circus, not my monkeys. He doesn't seem that bothered and so I'm going to stop trying to view his relationships through the filter of my family. We are close and call each other every day. My sister always wants to video chat so she can see the baby and make faces and do "babytalk", but no point forcing this dynamic on people for whom it isn't natural. And then feeling resentful that they aren't grateful for it. For all I know they find it annoying that they get a ping from my husband Every. Saturday. Morning asking if they're free to chat. And they probably find our four-times-a-week forwarding of baby photos etc quite boring. So I'm going to just lay off all of that and let him negotiate his dynamics the way he wants to.

All sounds very sensible.

The synopsis of Toxic In-laws:

Loving strategies for protecting your marriage. Problem in-laws carry a unique set of issues of authority, control, power and the time-honoured feeling that they "know better". Dr. Forward identifies the different type of in-laws, as well as their behaviour tactics and motivations, from the most benign to the most toxic. She explains what they do, why they do it and the traps you and your partner can fall into. Next she lays out a reasonable survival guide - how to deal with in-laws, how to deal with a passive partner and how to protect your marriage. If you follow the advice in this book you may not turn toxic in-laws into wonderful in-laws, but you'll find your voice, reconnect with the one you love and with yourself. Your life will be better, your marriage will be stronger and you will have gained self-respect by using loving strategies to protect your marriage.

Sounds familiar?

Sigh! Now if I could only magically find the time to read this book and implement its strategies!

People keep saying record covertly. I think when she starts you should openly turn on recording and say "We will just let DH know what you think and are saying to babe. I am recording this for DH."
She may get worse or it may simmer down if the avoidance of nasty comment is a conscious action.
Mothers of sons find it difficult to hand over to wifely concerns and she did have an unpleasant start to being your MIL.

I had similar with SIL only saying nasty things when DH wasn’t in the room. I absolutely refuse to be in a room with her unless he isn’t there, or other male relatives. I will get up and walk out to another room if she comes into a room I’m in alone. It’s tedious but it works. However DH is supportive of me and believes me. Perhaps you need to be straight with him, is he saying you are lying? Does he believe his mother over you? If she is doing the same to his brothers wife perhaps his brother can talk some sense into him?

Unless he is there I mean.

I'm sorry for your loss
If mine ever said that to me after such a traumatic time I actually would go NC with no guilt whatsoever. I think you are going to live a life of resentment trying to deal with her, and I think NC is the best option here for you.
Your husband can still see her and hopefully he won't be so stressed out because he won't be piggy in the middle anglers

Oops *anymore

I think you have the right strategy, OP.

You say you are a go-getting angry feminist to them - but I see tons of female socialisation going on in your posts, and you need to break free of that.

You are not responsible for all the family relationships. Your DH can manage his wider family. You can be polite, fair but detached.

Think of the awful comments as a stick passing in a stream, not a pebble making waves in a pond. In the next moment they have gone somewhere else, not stayed lurking in your unconscious. You don't need to keep those comments, just watch them go past you.

Think of your MIL as a distant relative you don't know well. Humour her from afar, think well, it's ages until I have to see her again.

Your DH can be responsible for his own family.

If you can't detach from it, then I second couples counselling to get rid of all that anger and blame from the marriage.

What did your dad do that was so horrendous before the wedding?

Your spot on with the initiating contact.. Just brace when you get today your cutting him off!!
I made your mistake op and dabbled in family dynamics and tried to bridge the gap between dh and his family..

wow this sounds similar to my situation with my MIL too.. So sorry to hear about your loss. She sounds like a real insecure cow to not be trying her best to support you. I havent found a way to properly handle it yet, its almost destroyed my marriage but with a baby half baked now I feel very stuck so my commiserations to you. I had to cut my MIL out and refuse to have her visit or interact with me anymore as like you DH has boundary failures. its the only way i could cope so respect to you for being the bigger person on this..
Ive been advised (I obvs haven't taken this advice at all..) to have a frank non confrontational conversation about the way she makes me feel and the pressure it puts on our marriage and ask her what she makes of the situation and how could we work together to try to make things easier for DH, as he is also upset by it.. maybe that could work for you, I haven't bothered as i feel communication with my MIL is just a lost cause..

Thanks for all the advice!

nosquirrels that’s a v useful analogy, will keep that in mind.

I don’t know why I’m not able to just take a step back and get some perspective. I keep feeling so angry and hurt that she’s trying to poison my husband against me, and I know she doesn’t really want her son to be divorced.. I think all she wants is for our marriage to be a bit unhappy. BUT the world is full of MiLs who are catty and mean and she isn’t even the worst example. Why am I taking it so personally? Why do I keep wanting this magical close relationship with my inlaws and then resenting them when it doesn’t happen. I need to readjust my expectations big time and just be polite but distant. The way I am with more distant relatives. Then the little digs and snide remarks and rude behaviour won’t affect me.

Sorry you’re having a similar situation st0pthebus

I don’t think having a big conversation will help at all in my case. She hates any suggestion that she may have done something remotely wrong. She just explodes in victim hood and gets super super defensive. So it won’t serve any purpose.

I hope the rest of your pregnancy is peaceful. And you have good strategies in place for handling her once the baby is here!

Have you thought about sniggering/full out laughing at these comments.
It'll really annoy her and she can't complain as they were obviously lighthearted/funny to begin with or she'd have hurt your feelings!
Or a running conversation to baby about how silly dg is.

And with all else I will avoid firmly - so I'm going home (to my hometown) for a month before my mat leave ends, but not going to visit her since DH has no more AL left to join us; I don't and won't facilitate video calls with the baby etc. That's all up to my husband and he can handle this.

I think this is a really good middle-road. No explosive fallings out, but you don't need to deal with their rudeness.

Earlier I felt guilty at how asymmetrical the relationships are between DS and my family and my husband's. ...but I don't want to keep bending over backwards to facilitate it.

It's only asymmetrical if he doesn't bother. You already facilitate contact between the baby and your family. He's equally capable of doing it with his family.

The problem is that it's 'wifework' - something women are supposed to do to maintain a pleasant family dynamic. Has he ever acknowledged that you do it for him, or thanked you for doing it? If not, he either doesn't place great value on it, or assumes it's trivial. Either way, let him do it from now on.

Oh, also would you consider hitting 'record' on your phone every time your OH leaves the room?

I don’t want to get into recording or “proving” she is wrong etc. I don’t want to “win” or go NC or anything. All I want is her to be polite, and me to be left alone.

I do know of wifework and have tried to avoid doing it. I think he does notice when I stop - like if I don’t send baby pics to the WhatsApp group etc, but it’s his call and he can do it just as easily as I can. I think I get too involved and ask him how they’re doing etc, and since as a family they are terrible at looking forward and planning I try to do the planning for them. But they clearly managed inefficiently but fine without me and so let them crack on with it. And if it ends up that people are alone for significant birthdays because no one thought ahead etc that’s their call really.. and presumably doesn’t even bother them as much as it would me. I do think I project a fair bit of how I would want to be treated Nd try to treat them the same but they’re not me, and I should also try to just leave them to be the way they’d like to be!

She sounds a lot like my MIL. I just keep my mouth shut around her and don't spend any time with her anymore beyond what is polite. She is very much your DHs problem. If he can't manage her then he can't exoect to have a relationship with her.