I keep ending up in a rage with MIL - how do I cope?

[ZaphodBeeblerox]

I've had a previous thread on her about my MIL and had some useful suggestions on here which I attempted to use. Just a short recap : MIL and I have a fairly difficult relationship. She's widowed and lives on her own in south asia where both my husband and I are originally from. She visits for 4-6 weeks at a time, and in previous years (when I was in fulltime work) it was fine for the most part. In the past two years however, her visits have been timed around me being on mat leave. This year she's obviously here to see her first grandchild; last year she came when I was on leave after suffering a loss at term. Both visits have been excruciating. I have PND and postnatal anxiety and am getting some help for it (but she doesn't know about the diagnosis I think). There are a number of different issues - her sexist views (expecting me to pick up after her but her son not to have to lift a finger), her habit of saying thoughtless hurtful things under the excuse of "I didn't mean it" and so on. Most recently we've ended up having a massive fight nearly every few weeks which has not ended well.

I love my husband and he's a good egg. However, I'm realising he has trouble drawing boundaries with his family because of the way they react if anyone calls them out on it. Following my therapists suggestion that I replace my aggression with assertiveness, I tried most recently when she annoyed me to just address the issue in the moment. When playing with the baby, as soon as my husband left the room she asks DS (8 mos old) "Oh is mummy not smiling at you".. this is after previous instances where she keeps saying things like "Oh is mummy ignoring you.. are you sad mummy's not picking you up" etc. She always plays innocent when I call her out on it, and says its just a "cultural thing", and I'm being petty and oversensitive. And my DH at the end of his patience with these repeated fights just asks me why I need to fight every statement rather than letting it go. My issue is that I feel certain she'll repeat statements like these to my child when he's older and make me feel worse about leaving him in childcare 9-5 so I can work. And I think the cultural issue is bs cover for piling onto my guilt. Its funny how none of these cultural memes involve guilting the dad or making fun of the dad in any way.

Anyway, she lost it and basically refused to come visit us any more and said her son can just come visit her if he wants. Essentially cutting off the only grandchild she has because I said she needs to watch what she says in front of him. Clearly there's more of a backstory - this isn't by far the vilest thing she's said but don't want to make the OP longer than it is. I then caved and spoke to her in a conciliatory (although not apologetic) manner just to stop her from going NC because the person who'll be hurt by this is my husband. And if he sees us being close to my family (who are very kind and bend over backwards to help us out) but not speaking to his family (who make v little effort), he'll feel bad.

So how do I cope with being made to feel like a mug. Having processed this over the past few days I feel like she's just using her victimhood as a way to get me to toe the line so I'll be scared to ever point out her faults in the future. And she's perpetuating this trope that I am the bad person. Essentially whatever I do, she only remembers the bad things; whereas if I point out anything hurtful she's said or done then I've misunderstood or I'm lying.

I'm looking for some insights into how to handle her behaviour without cutting her off; how to cope internally with her toxicity; and generally how people manage without going NC. Sorry for the very long OP!

I know this isn't the point of the thread, and don't have any advice but I'm so sorry for your loss OP and have no idea how anyone could use that as an opportunity to get a dig in - that's extremely low and you've coped well to be so restrained.

Whenever you're in a room with her on your own (or just with DS) make sure you have your phone with you and switched to record. Then your DH will know the truth.

Oh I like the idea of turning it around on her....Granny is being a bitch, at least while your baby is small enough not to be repeat it.

She sounds awful, very manipulative. It would be good to play her at her own game, make her see you can play the victim too. I know you shouldn't have to and you are trying to protect your DH's relationship with his nasty DM. You have my sympathy.

I would call her separately and basically say, look I know you're a bitch, you know you're a bitch so just note that I am tolerating you for the sake of my husband, however if you dare cross the line or play any of your games again by god you will wish you hadn't- and don't forget my life without you in it is a far nicer prospect so I won't need much of a push to go no contact, and that includes my child

Sounds like you need to keep your phone with you at all times if it has a voice recorder … that way when partner leaves room you can record MIL. Can enough comments and you could show partner what she is saying/why it is an issue. Or you could listen back and see if it sounds different with a little perspective/distance.

I honestly think I'd set up a nanny-cam type situation (with visual and audio), and then show DH when it happens again and she has denied it.

Of course, I'd set the camera up to help monitor the baby well before MILs next visit, so it had nothing whatsoever to do with her.......

I third the idea of a nanny-cam.

I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your first baby, she was extremely cruel and heartless and there is no excuse for that behaviour to the mother grieving of all people!

Your MIL is presumably a grown woman. Why are you trying to fix/salvage her relationship with her son and grandchild, and convince her not to do something (go NC) that she's said she wants to do? Let her make her own choices, and respect them. There's really no need for you to intervene. Very odd dynamic.

By refusing to visit she is manipulating you.

If she must visit she must come when you are no longer on leave. Your child will go to your mom/ nursery, mil will stay at a hotel and she may arrange for visiting hours in the evening. She may stay for 2 weeks and then go home. Those are the boundaries that I would put in place.

I don't understand why she keeps going on about 'cultural' things when you are from exactly the same culture! Surely if it was cultural (as opposed to just horrible and unreasonable/ unkind) then you would have experienced it too.

I agree with others.
Plan your strategy.

1. Record her
2. If she flounces let her go
3. Carry on in your daily life. Never facilitate her. That’s DH job
4. If she makes comments like is “mum ignoring you?” Go in depth. Ask why did you say that? Why would you think that?

Force her to discuss her shitty comments.

You’re a better person than me op!
for your loss x

It is such a shame you called her to try to smooth things over. You were doing so well until then.

I like what maddening said and I like the idea of the nanny cam. Calling her up and calling her behaviour out is a good way of taking some of the ground back that you lost when you phoned her. If she does visit again, I think I’d orchestrate a discussion asking her why she said x to you and record it on your phone or nanny cam.

You’ll probably have heard the phrase “you can’t change how someone behaves but you can change how you react to them”. I’m not for one moment suggesting her behaviour is acceptable but it might be best for your own sanity to just roll your eyes and let a lot of stuff go. I agree with some PPs that the more annoying or offensive stuff you should get her to explain what she means as a way of calling her out. Plus the advantage of letting things go is that if she’s deliberately doing it to antagonize you it won’t work so she will get frustrated and she’ll either give up or escalate and that will be much much harder to hide from your DH.

I know on MN there are a lot of people who will encourage you to fight back and not let her get away with it but they mostly just want a juicy dramatic story to follow. There’s a difference between being a doormat and consciously choosing to ignore comments and you’ll find you’re much calmer if not everything is a fight or battle.

When your MIL speaks to your dc in the way, respond with “granny’s doing her weird sexist nastiness again. Isn’t she silly. Let’s have a good laugh.”

And repeat.

You have my complete sympathy.

Op I think you are far too lenient on your husband here and actually seem like you are making excuses for him. She sounds utterly horrible and yet theyve somehow manipulated you into believing you are unreasonable for not accepting any of it.

Sorry for your loss, after that I dont know why you are bending over trying to placate her all for the sake of your husband.

As you have said she says sly , nasty things to your DC so why are you desperate for your DC to even have her in their life.

She doesn't want to visit any more- that's great then!! Why are you trying so hard to please her? For your husband's sake? The same person who is willing to sit by and let do this to you. Utter madness.

All you did by calling her, is letting them know you are unreasonable

Agree. You are doing far too much to placate her odd behaviour. could you turn it around so when he or she says that she must 'watch what she says' then say I'm glad she's realised that she's been really rude at times!

OP for your loss.

I'm south asian so I understand where you're coming from. I haven't experienced this myself as my MIL is a rare saint, but I have friends who are in a similar situation. My mum went through something similar too.

I second the idea of recording her. That way when your DH is telling you to let things go and not argue with her, you can play back the recording and he can see for himself how difficult it is to ignore her nastiness.

To PP who are asking OP why she called her MIL when she threatened to go NC, I think this is a cultural thing. No matter how bad her MIL is, OP wants her children and her DH to have a good relationship with her.
I have seen my mum go through this. Her MIL (my granny) could be very nasty to her.. All because my dad married someone who wasn't choosen by his parents. My granny preferred her other daughter in law who she thought came from a better background. I have memories of my mum and granny yelling at each other, but at the same time I also have memories of some very loving moments with my granny and that wouldn't have been possible if my mum had decided to go NC with her. There is something about women from my culture who can go from being absolutely lovely to batshit crazy bitches once their son gets married... I wish I knew what it was! Ironically, during her last days when my granny was very ill, it was my mum who brought her home and looked after her as her other favourite daughter in law refused to do anything for her.

I'm in no way saying that my granny's behaviour or OP's MIL's behaviour is acceptable, but culture and generation gap is party the reason

If she says she's not going to visit again then say that's a shame, dh will miss you and celebrate because she sounds like a nightmare

My MIL was like this.... insulting me in front room while OH was making cups of tea and the kettle was on, sat talking to my baby calling him by his first name then when OH left the room she would start calling him his full name (first name then surname, their family surname) but really put emphasis when saying the surname and look at me for a reaction. Or sly comments to my baby, I told my OH to put the kettle on one day but to come to the door and listen behind it and low and behold he heard it all. We started reducing contact slowly (she demanded more than twice a week as her words I have HER grandchild!) but we didn't budge and instead went to once a week. This was noticed and when we went to their house she would have her flying monkeys there saying sly comments too, it was horrendous. One day we had enough and decided to try talk it through and smooth the awkward tension up, BIG mistake. I was screamed at, in my face, that my child was their grandchild and that they are sick of me, how my OH needs to reign me in n give our child over when they suited else there would be consequences, then the emotional blackmail started, cutting OH out of will,threatening to seeing a solicitor for access, etc. It was worst time of my entire life, started making vile accusations that we must be substance abusers as no other explanation for our weird behaviour (us distancing ourselves) when we totally ignored them flying monkeys showed at our home, our work places, my disabled mums home, and my car was followed. sorry I have gone off track here but wanted to let you know your not the only one, please keep her at arms length and don't give her satisfaction of getting to you. I still suffer mentally now with it all. record her and let OH see what she is doing, then work as a team together.

"Oh Grandmas doing that thing again" Whilst rolling your eyes.

I think that you need to decide exactly what you will tolerate and what you won't. Agree the terms with your Dh and stand firm.
Little digs about your laxity with the housework....water off a ducks back. Ignore ignore ignore.
Badmouthing you to your baby/child/teen...hell no, Pull her up on it every time.
..or indeed whatever 'rules' you and your DH agree on.
You need to work as a team for the benefit of your own little family. Get him onside.

...and I'm projecting a little because my own DM (not Asian) has an odd relationship with my youngest (now teen) and my DC now finds it really upsetting when DM badmouths me to her.

I know this isn't the point of the thread, and don't have any advice but I'm so sorry for your loss OP and have no idea how anyone could use that as an opportunity to get a dig in - that's extremely low and you've coped well to be so restrained. I agree
Usually I read aghast at the silly pettiness of MIL threads but not this time. OP, she is trying to cut you down to size. I'm pretty mouthy but would not be able to cope with that level of nastiness. You can't be left alone with her at the moment because you're too vulnerable.

You're a better person than me, after that C-section comment I would never have acknowledged her existence again, let alone host her in my house

Ditto! She's a vile creature who has no place in your life. And if my DH hadn't reamed her up one side and down the other for saying such a disgusting thing, I probably wouldn't have acknowledged HIS existence again either!

He's enabling her atrocious behaviour towards you. She's gaslighting you. I'd go NC and there's no way in hell she'd be having access to my child. If anyone wants to see my children, they need to respect me as their mother first.