I keep ending up in a rage with MIL - how do I cope?

[ZaphodBeeblerox]

I've had a previous thread on her about my MIL and had some useful suggestions on here which I attempted to use. Just a short recap : MIL and I have a fairly difficult relationship. She's widowed and lives on her own in south asia where both my husband and I are originally from. She visits for 4-6 weeks at a time, and in previous years (when I was in fulltime work) it was fine for the most part. In the past two years however, her visits have been timed around me being on mat leave. This year she's obviously here to see her first grandchild; last year she came when I was on leave after suffering a loss at term. Both visits have been excruciating. I have PND and postnatal anxiety and am getting some help for it (but she doesn't know about the diagnosis I think). There are a number of different issues - her sexist views (expecting me to pick up after her but her son not to have to lift a finger), her habit of saying thoughtless hurtful things under the excuse of "I didn't mean it" and so on. Most recently we've ended up having a massive fight nearly every few weeks which has not ended well.

I love my husband and he's a good egg. However, I'm realising he has trouble drawing boundaries with his family because of the way they react if anyone calls them out on it. Following my therapists suggestion that I replace my aggression with assertiveness, I tried most recently when she annoyed me to just address the issue in the moment. When playing with the baby, as soon as my husband left the room she asks DS (8 mos old) "Oh is mummy not smiling at you".. this is after previous instances where she keeps saying things like "Oh is mummy ignoring you.. are you sad mummy's not picking you up" etc. She always plays innocent when I call her out on it, and says its just a "cultural thing", and I'm being petty and oversensitive. And my DH at the end of his patience with these repeated fights just asks me why I need to fight every statement rather than letting it go. My issue is that I feel certain she'll repeat statements like these to my child when he's older and make me feel worse about leaving him in childcare 9-5 so I can work. And I think the cultural issue is bs cover for piling onto my guilt. Its funny how none of these cultural memes involve guilting the dad or making fun of the dad in any way.

Anyway, she lost it and basically refused to come visit us any more and said her son can just come visit her if he wants. Essentially cutting off the only grandchild she has because I said she needs to watch what she says in front of him. Clearly there's more of a backstory - this isn't by far the vilest thing she's said but don't want to make the OP longer than it is. I then caved and spoke to her in a conciliatory (although not apologetic) manner just to stop her from going NC because the person who'll be hurt by this is my husband. And if he sees us being close to my family (who are very kind and bend over backwards to help us out) but not speaking to his family (who make v little effort), he'll feel bad.

So how do I cope with being made to feel like a mug. Having processed this over the past few days I feel like she's just using her victimhood as a way to get me to toe the line so I'll be scared to ever point out her faults in the future. And she's perpetuating this trope that I am the bad person. Essentially whatever I do, she only remembers the bad things; whereas if I point out anything hurtful she's said or done then I've misunderstood or I'm lying.

I'm looking for some insights into how to handle her behaviour without cutting her off; how to cope internally with her toxicity; and generally how people manage without going NC. Sorry for the very long OP!

I'd go NC. Don't try to have a relationship with her for your child. Such poisoning people don't make their grandchildren happy anyway.

I’m wondering why I’m less angry about the vile comments. I agree they’re vile. If someone said them to my sister I’d want to take an ax to them. And all my life I’ve been this alpha personality super aggressive person (I know it doesn’t come across in the OP). I’ve held down high profile high paying jobs, have an MBA from a top school, regularly been on TV for my expertise.. I say this not to boast but to paint a better picture to say I’ve always been this hot tempered v feminist person who takes no bs and most people would say I’m a “tomboy” (code for she acts like a man would).

So why do I put up with this? I think I’m genuinely scared of her going NC because then my husband would be the one who’s hurt. She’d love wallowing in her own misery and making me out to be the bad guy. And my husband’s father had a whole host of similar misunderstandings and fights with my family just before we got married and passed away from a terminal illness weeks after our wedding. So it has been a bit of I came into their lives and ruined their father’s last six months or so with these fights with my family. Something that both DH and I carry a lot of guilt over. And mil reinforced this literally from the minute we walked in to the house after fil had passed. Her first words to him were to remind him in how much worry and anguish his father was (about him) before he passed. Her second act was to go completely NC with my family so they couldn’t come to the funeral and with that they are no longer welcome or spoken about in his house. So even when our baby was born my husband’s side of the family didn’t see him for the first 4 months since my mum was here to help me and they won’t be in the same room as my mum.

But she does these things in this very little old woman victim way that it’s hard to feel she’s being manipulative. So both DH and I keep telling ourselves she means well and isn’t malicious but is just thoughtless and doesn’t understand how hurtful some of the things are. Many of these are stream of consciousness ramblings and I wonder if I am over sensitive to them.

I am angry at DH for not sticking up for me, or was rather, but yknow between me and MIL she’s so soft spoken and old, and I’m so angry young feminist that I imagine anyone in real life would have a hard time supporting me over her. And he has obviously also been battered by a lifetime of this toxic behaviour I realise and is slowly opening his eyes to how badly he is treated, but hates confronting them.

And I just can’t be the cause of him going NC with his one remaining parent. I know his brother will use this opportunity to pile on more guilt as well. I just want to go as LC as possible without causing anyone to lose face.

I also think your MIL behaves in certain way because of some cultural traditions, she is different generation and clearly has different views. Your DH’s problem to set clear boundaries is also cultural thing so you can’t expect him to change in a few years.
You have lots of good ideas: DH is in charge of phone calls, emails, any sort of communication and MIL visits only when he is at home, visits are short. I think you need to build up family life without your InLaws in the picture. You live on different country and it put certain expectations on your family, so you and your DH needs to focus on this. I would discuss “family rules” with your DH which you want to follow and expect all relatives to follow them. I wouldn’t discuss his mum behaviour with him too often, rather how you want your children being brought up , etc. It will be easier for him .
I do understand your problem, I have the same with my parents ( not South Asian) but still ..... I’m trying to keep contact less intensive and don’t tell them everything what’s going on in my life. And as there is a distance between us , it helps.

This sounds AWFUL! I would pick ds up from her if she says anything like that to him, and say to him in a singsong type way something like 'Oh, look, grandma is off on one of her silly rants again, let's go out for a walk, and hopefully she'll be normal by the time we get back'. And simply remove him from her presence. Every time she says something like this, remove him from her and take him away. She'll learn that she doesn't get the thing she wants (contact with ds) if she says stupid things like this.

I'd also get a hidden webcam recorder thing that allows you to record exactly what's being said at all times - so that she can't deny it.

And if she continues being a bitch despite this, take DS and go and stay with your inlaws for a bit!

I think you are being far too generous and considered towards someone who overtly blamed you for your loss and is now trying to damage your relationship with your child.

Lots of great ideas here. Thank you for allowing me to vent, for helping me clarify my thinking and coming up with some great strategies I can use immediately.

My dad weighed in with the same advice last week, that I am overprotective of my husband and I intermediate too much with his family and I need to stop, so I’m going to stop facilitating these things.

And all that greenlynx said echoing a few others as well : DH handles all calls etc. I’ve explained to him this morning that he should call and chat etc as much as he’d like but not expect me to do so, and to not cop out and make excuses for me like “oh zaphod’s just gone for a bath etc”; time to reset expectations that I’ll be around for all chats and so on. And similarly time to reset expectations of these long visits because they don’t work.

I also laid out for him how it’s affecting my mental health, and how I feel gaslighted by being told what I hear is not what I heard iyswim. He seems to get it, although I know this will be a work in progress.

Your MIL is a very nasty person. You say you try to think she means well, don't. She doesn't mean well, the things she says aren't bumbling thoughtlessness, she knows she is offensive and her aim is to rile you. Then she gets the satisfaction of being the victim and playing that role to whoever will listen. I think your strategies of not being available are good. You want to keep the relationship with her for your husband so he can take the lead on that as you are the focus of whatever weirdness is going on in her head. Sometimes the best strategy is to drop the rope and not play the game. I think you are very sensible to not visit her,not allow long visits especially when you have no way to limit your time with her. I wouldn't bother confronting her about the frankly stupid things she says when you are left alone with her, that's what she is after, she's not going to have an epiphany when you call her out, you'll be dancing to her tune. I'd try not being alone with her. Talk to OH before any visit and work together to make sure your not left with her. 'Cup of tea?i'll put the kettle on darling!' Also I'd really stop trying to understand her and worrying about her. You can't, she's weird, go let her be weird. Treat her whole existence as a detached exercise observing dysfunctional human behaviour. Your child is a worry but really they'll get granny is a weirdo especially as they age and realise grown ups can be tricky especially if you teach them that good people don't talk others down. Good luck OP!

Thank you all so much! I thought I was going to be told to be more reasonable! I don’t share all of this with friends, and my family obviously are completely on my side but are probably biased, so i feel like I’ve just been going over this in my head for over a year - and it just feels like a big relief to know it’s not just me who thinks she’s ridiculous!

I’ve had a long conversation with my DH and it turns out he has a lot of trouble believing me. In his mind I am a drama queen and since none of these things are said in front of him he believes I am either misremembering the context or misunderstanding or something.

I pointed out that she says hurtful things to him too, but he’s had a lifetime of them so he says yes but I don’t take them seriously.

I point out that his DB DSIL appears to be lowering contact, but he refuses to speculate on why.

Basically his DM always means well and it’s just that I am misinterpreting everything. And also maybe this is her way of getting back at me for how hurt she is over our wedding and who can blame her.

I know I didn’t get married alone so surely he needs to take responsibility for marrying me, and if she is punishing me for marrying him then surely that is malicious? So either it’s all innocent words I’m misinterpreting or it’s malicious horriblestuff. Either way it seems like it’s all my fault.

I feel so trapped, I don’t want to raise my daughter alone. If I didn’t have her I feel so much like I could throw myself under a bus. Or off a really high bridge, and just happily sink under water. But she needs me and so I need to persist. I just don’t know what all of them want..

I could of course leave him but I love him v much except for this thing with his mum. And he is a good husband outside of it but he paid such a high price for going against his dad

I don't know how you and dh 'went against his Dad', but it was your wedding so it was n't your FILs decisions anyway. Don't feel guilty. If he wanted to wallow on self pity and victim hood, ruining his last 6 months, that was his fault. OP you need clearer boundaries on what is/isn't your responsibility. Your dh has a lifetime of what sounds like v controlling and manipulative behaviour which has distorted his sense of what is right and wrong.

In terms of what MIL wants, she wants to control you. But one again, tough luck. This isn't going to go well because you are not dysfunctional enough to put up with it. Dh wants you to put up with it too, because that's what he's done. You standing up to her highlights his own weakness.

Sorry, I didn't finish my previous post: DH paid such a high price for marrying me over his dad's wishes; and his father passed away so soon after our wedding that there was no real opportunity for a proper rapprochement. His mum has held on to all that anger and sadness and five years later still takes it out on me. OR apparently just is completely thoughtless and doesn't actually mean anything she says.

He still keeps arguing that so much of what she says is well meant and sounds bad out of context. So as usual, I am the crotchety problem. I don't know why I keep on putting up with this. I used to be a confident joyful person, but slowly over the years all that is ebbing away until I'm this little shell of what I used to be. I don't think they'll be happy until I am out of their family.

"There, there, DS, don't worry about silly Granny, she just wants Daddy to go back to her and divorce me which will mean that she'll very rarely get to see you at all then"

"Oh, I didn't say anything like that, it was just a joke, don't be silly, she's taking it out of context' when DH gets told...

Then a nanny cam for her next visit is all you can do. So he can see the lead up to the comments. It's not all in your head.

Nanny cam. Have a nanny cam and prove it to dh

X post!

I’m not sure what to say OP because you’re clearly in a very difficult situation. I’m sure others may have better advice but please don’t ever think of ending your life. You are right when you say your daughter needs you and will always need you. You also have a loving father and supportive family. She isn’t going to change and neither is your husband. The coping suggestions of shorter visits etc are helpful. You may find all the festering resentment breaks up your marriage but I hope not. Family dynamics cause a lot of stress for many couples but at the end of the day your husband should also be your best friend and have your back when you’re so upset. Maybe couple counselling might help. X

Have you told your DH that his refusal to believe you is having a seriously detrimental affect on your mental health and your relationship with him? Ask him why he considers you to be lying, and not his mother. Ask him how could his mother asking your DC if they are being neglected by mummy be taken out of context?

She sounds like the kind of woman I would never let into my home, but I would have to ask these questions of my DH.

Holy fuck

Words fail me.

Your dh is totally deluded

So....because you are not FILs choice for his son, the whole family gets to be horrible to you and your family and because dh CHOSE to marry you, this is your fault and your family's fault. How does dh interpret the way his family treat your family? Ok. My dh is Sri Lankan. His parents live there. They are quite traditional. They wanted a certain marriage for him, but he married me. I don't think they particularly liked it. It wasn't their plan for him and they sacrificed a lot to send him here. But you know what, they shut up, never mentioned it, accepted me, love our children...and I'm not from the same culture. These people are so dysfunctional it's scary.

No, I’m not explaining it very well. My entire wedding was a shit show. My dad made a big mess of it and insulted them in a myriad of ways, and they were so deeply hurt by all of it that they didn’t want DH to go ahead with the wedding. He defied them and pushed ahead with it saying I am not like my dad. Then his dad passed away soon after. So the hatred and hurt of his dad’s last few months hangs over our marriage and his family have treated me in line with that. I have genuinely tried to not be arrogant like my dad and to be warm to them etc. I think I just made a mistake thinking this sort of thing can ever be overcome and made a mistake marrying him. We should have just said it won’t work because our families hate each other too much. I have since made sure DH is quite LC with my dad and don’t expect him to play happy families with my father.

He thinks I’m now trying to draw a false equivalence between my family’s “vile behaviour” and the “innocent misunderstandings” of his family to put them all on equal footing. I’ve been very cautious because I’m scared of doing this. His family have always been viewed as “good”, but they’re not very nice to me; and it hurts that my husband, who I love so much, doesn’t feel the need to step up and protect me.. instead he wants to protect his poor old mother who’s being falsely accused and so innocently repeatedly misunderstood.

I get it, it’s a lifetime of being treated like this. I wish I could just go away, and he’d be alone and then he can see how unhappy he still is... because I’m not the problem - his insensitive twatty family is. But he’s so overcome by guilt towards them I think he’d rather sacrifice me, our marriage, our child’s happiness.. everything rather than just tell his fucking mother to guard her tongue. And her explosive responses are a well timed strategy to ensure he (and I) always toe the line. But it’s couched always as oh then I won’t come visit you, it’s better I’m just here alone and unhappy rather than making all of you unhappy by visiting.

I have genuinely hand on heart tried so hard to make her welcome, and been nice and kind. In her mind she thinks she’s a very nice warm person and cannot understand why I “hate” her. Maybe just stop saying vile things and I won’t hate you.

She sounds utterly vile and calculating as she times her barbs for when you're alone and then Denys them. She is trying to drive a wedge between you and DH.
I had this with my FIL he said some utterly unforgivable things to me over the years about my family and other things and I carried on for my DH but last year I had it and I am NC. DH rarely communicates and I was FIL only real access to our family (we r overseas so social media and Skype are key) and now he doesn't have it. DH is free to visit him with dcs but I'm not facilitating their relationship to my detriment any longer. It hasn't come up yet about him visiting us - I'm not sure what I can do about that.

You have to do what you've been doing and remove yourself from their relationship- DH can have one and you don't have too. I wouldn't be able to have her there when DH was not present and I would avoid ever being g along with her

She sounds dreadful. You sound completely overwhelmed. There is no way that your MIL should make you think about ending it. Have you talked to your therapist about all this, completely frankly? Your DH needs to understand the high stakes here - couples therapy I think. Either he backs you or this marriage won’t work in the long run. Don’t give up OP you sound just great to me

Wow. OP it all just sounds worse every time you post. And your DH is not an innocent victim. He is an adult who made choices and is now throwing you under the bus rather than step up and deal with the consequences of those choices.

Look into FOG and the books "Toxic Parents" and "Toxic In-laws" often recommended on here. Get some counseling for yourself for strategies to deal with your DH. And when you feel stronger, give him an ultimatum, either he gets therapy to break his codependency with his mother, or he leaves. Because right now his primary allegiance is to HER, not to you, and that's no way to live in a marriage.

I'm so angry for you. I hope you can find your strength again and dig out of this.

What did you dad say and do??

How long are you going to be punished by these so called nice people??!

Nanny cam. However bad your dad was.. This is surely something in different league??