... about "natural birth" and "your body knows what to do"?

[ParsnipsAreTheDevil]

I keep seeing the whole "don't worry your body knows what to do" thing thrown at pregnant women and it was a massive part of the hypnobirthing course I did before
DS was born (he's 2 now). When it came to it it turned out my body didn't have a bloody clue what to do. In labour for 3 days, wasn't dilating, emergency c section and we both got sepsis. Felt like a massive failure afterwards thanks to the massive emphasis on natural birth and my body categorically NOT knowing what to do?

Aibu that what we should be saying to pregnant women is to keep an open mind about birth? I've met a few women since who had very similar experiences to me. Breathe the fecking baby out my arse.

Darcybussell, a midwife would look at your story and wouldn’t necessarily read it as forceps were an inevitable outcome.

This is an interesting article about meconium and the cascade of intervention that often follows when it’s identified in labour:

midwifethinking.com/tag/meconium/

Women and babies died in Furness because the midwives were so reluctant to escalate appropriately, minifingerz, so let’s not pretend that midwives are not as much part of the problem as the solution.

And what’s wrong with funnelling women towards choices on the basis of evidence?

“And what’s wrong with funnelling women towards choices on the basis of evidence?“

Evidence should be presented, recommendations made. Pressure isn’t needed.

Re: midwives - midwifery care is safe and effective. Plenty of proof for that. Poor practice in one maternity unit isn’t evidence of systematic failings across the profession.

YANBU. My body didn't know what to do as I got obstetric cholestasis and had to be induced at 37 weeks. 3 days worth of pessaries, syntocin drip and forceps after 13 hours of those fucking induction contractions with no break in between them.

I felt so disappointed that I hadn't had my much wanted water birth and that all of the meditation and positions I had learned in pregnancy yoga were useless because you can't 'ride the wave' of contractions which don't have periods of respite between them. This is clearly not the fault of pregnancy yoga or the teacher, or the woman who wrote my hypnobirthing book, and tbh I'm glad that they helped me feel more confident and not as terrified of birth during pregnancy but Lord I felt like a failure. Especially seeing posts on my pregnancy yoga Facebook group where everybody seemed to actively enjoy labour and got by on nothing but golden thread breathing and perhaps a wee bit of gas and air. I know it's daft, but it does make you feel like maybe you're not a natural mother.

Agent - the phrase 'your body knows what to do' has been interpreted by you and others on this thread as to mean: 'your body will never experience illness or dysfunction'. You must realise that when people say 'your body knows what to do' that they're not actually denying the existence of ill health or obstructed labour etc?

If I said 'when it comes to having a crap your body knows what to do', you'd take that in the spirit in which is was meant, which is that for the main part, the physical processes involved in crapping function normally, and all we have to do is provide a setting to allow it to take place: ie, a private toilet (most people would struggle to crap with an audience, no matter how well their bodies are functioning).

There really isn't anyone, anywhere in the world who has any reasonable knowledge of birth, who is trying to make the case that every woman's body will always function perfectly in childbirth.

I have absolutely no idea why threads like this crop up where person after person presents an argument against a non-existent proposition.

mini numerous posters on this thread have explained why the phrase makes them feel like shit. Are you saying their experiences are not valid?

"numerous posters on this thread have explained why the phrase makes them feel like shit. Are you saying their experiences are not valid?"

I think there are lots of people who have had difficult births are looking for somewhere to put their distress.

Along comes someone saying 'your body knows what to do in labour' - and bingo, there's somewhere to park your disappointment over your birth. All you have to do is be stolidly literal minded in interpreting that statement - reading it as 'all women's bodies work perfectly in labour and if yours didn't there's something weird/inadequate about you'. When of course it doesn't infer that at all.

It's wearisome, same as all the shite over breastfeeding. People want to breastfeed, people don't manage to breastfeed. People feel bad about not being able to breastfeed. People look around for somewhere to park their disappointment.

No one is entitled to an easy birth or breastfeeding.

It's no woman's fault if she has a difficult birth or difficult breastfeeding.

You don't need to go looking for someone to blame for your disappointment.

You don't need to go looking for someone to blame for your disappointment

Incredibly patronising and dismissive. That's not what I'm doing.

I kinda dont agree. My body took over. It was vvv strange and something i never expected.

Oh well london, must have been the same as everyone else's experience then.

Mine knew what to do. I felt like I had no control over it at all, I just froze in agony while it got on with it. All I felt was all-encompassing pain and desperation, and disbelief that I had no control. I hallucinated and may have slept at times. It was like I was there but not there. Labour lasted about 10 hours. I had to be told when to push (no epidural) as I couldn't distinguish the contractions from the pain.
Next time I want an epidural!

mini I get what you're saying. Of course my assisted delivery and medical condition don't make me a failure at birth, but I think it's important to look at context. I can know, logically, that I am not a failure but that doesn't necessarily change how I feel.

Because the context that so many of us prepare to give birth in is one which doesn't really account for things going wrong. We might know that realistically a birth which progresses 'naturally', which we can handle through breathing and 'being in touch with' our bodies, which is essentially what we were born to do as women and which is the epitome of our power and strength as women, isn't going to happen for lots of us and we should be OK with that. But the narratives around 'natural' birth are so consuming, so powerful, and so emotional. I had it in my birth plan that I didn't want strong pain relief because I wanted to really experience it, as if proving that I was strong enough to be worthy of my child. I read so much on hypnobirthing sites about how pain relief increases the likelihood of intervention and intervention increases the risk of birth injuries.

When I was told I had cholestasis I felt like my chance to do birth 'right' had been taken away. And I had no idea what induction would entail because they certainly didn't talk about it in pregnancy yoga or at my (crap) antenatal class! So you can logically know that intervention is common and nothing to feel bad about, but emotionally feel completely different. Because you read so much that says birth is a 'natural' process, not a surgical one and these narratives, in appealing to our emotions, leave no room for intervention as acceptable.

Yanbu... I really wanted the whole natural water birth, I ended up with an epidural and an episiotomy... a lot of people push the negatives of them, even in my birthing class, but my labour was long I was contracting really strongly and close together right from the start but 16 hours in I was still 5cm with my legs in stirrups being prodded and poked to take blood from babies scalp to check she was ok..

I demanded the epidural, they attached something to babies head and I had the best nap I have ever had in my whole life, wish I'd have had it sooner so I could be awake and present once my daughter was born, rather than out of it with exhaustion and sickness

mini I think you are putting the cart before the horse in your comments about people 'needing somewhere to put their disappointment'. IME it is the other way around - women are disappointed, often, because they have been set up to expect a certain experience, and to believe that they can influence the birth they have by being relaxed/positioning, etc, far more than is actually the case.

For sure being relaxed/trusting your body will improve the odds of having a good birth, but it in no way guarantees it. When women are led to believe that they can control what happens in birth, and then they are confronted with difficulties they could not overcome, that is when a sense of disappointment or failure can set in. Because they have been set up to believe it was in their control and would be a lovely, magical experience, rather than the horrifically painful, farmyard-style experience many end up with, where they are not listened to or sufficiently supported, and end up traumatised as a result.

We would do well to be more honest, in my view.

I had to be induced with both my pregnancies. DC1 rapidly flew out causing carnage & DC2 waters had to be reputed, got stuck (my body knew that but midwives didn’t believe) ended up with episiotomy & ventouse assisted delivery.
I strongly believe that I would never have had spontaneous labour

“I strongly believe that I would never have had spontaneous labour“

How many weeks were you when you were induced? 43?

@Parsnip no everyone experience is different. Some have easier time than others. I can only tell you about mine. I totally was going to do the drugs etc but my body took over and i just went with it. Ok the blood loss at the end wasnt great but the body taking over really shocked me and surprised me. It was out of body. Vvv strange.

“ IME it is the other way around - women are disappointed, often, because they have been set up to expect a certain experience”

Yes, because most adult women have lived under a stone until they get pregnant, and have no idea that nearly 30% of births are by c/s, 30% are induced, and 14% are assisted. And of course the tv is FULL of women having blissful, unassisted births. And nobody tells you about their complicated births, oh no.

Most women are led to expect carnage and horror in labour and are then astonished when their own labours are hideous.

And those who do some prep for birth which encourages them to feel that with a bit of luck, the right environment and good care, their births are likely to be better, who then go on to have difficult births, somehow come out of it feeling that this birth prep guaranteed them a good experience and feel cheated and misled.

If you do Hypnobirthing/yoga prep for birth and come out of it feeling like you’re guaranteed a straightforward birth, you have no one to blame but yourself. Do some reading ffs!

“prove the odds of having a good birth, but it in no way guarantees it.”

Aargh!

Bangs head against the wall.

Nobody says it does. Nobody nobody nobody.

Straw man argument.

Yanbu. 3 days no progression woth a back to back a baby and we both came close to death. Three weeks later retained placenta and a massive infection were found

“Because the context that so many of us prepare to give birth in is one which doesn't really account for things going wrong“

That’s the fault of individual women failing to educate themselves.

And BTW - you don’t have to have a labour which progresses naturally to use a whole range of self help strategies and to work with your body. I’ve had 3 births and not one has been uncomplicated. I’ve had forceps, shoulder dystocia, a pph, syntocinon drip, epidural. I used all sorts of coping strategies that made a positive difference to my labours and never, ever felt like a failure. Why would I? I was doing my best to get through a really difficult experience.

If you do Hypnobirthing/yoga prep for birth and come out of it feeling like you’re guaranteed a straightforward birth, you have no one to blame but yourself. Do some reading ffs!

I have a lot of sympathy with a lot of your points on here, but that seems very unfair and a bit callous. I didn't ever fully buy into my hypnobirthing class - which some people would say is why it didn't really work for me - but one of the things that made me uneasy is that, while they paid lip service to 'we can't guarantee a pain-free/straightforward birth', they certainly didn't do anything else to dispell that notion. Every birth story was natural and unmedicated, as I said upthread induction was barely mentioned and when I said I was worried about having one the teacher quickly switched to talking about 'natural ways to bring on labour' (even though my induction was scheduled for 39+6). We were told that if anyone tried to tell us a non-hypnobirthing birth story we should tell them to stop. C-section was mentioned once. I was repeatedly told that the fact I was going to need continuous fetal monitoring in labour wouldn't restrict the positions I could use - as I always suspected, this was not true.

As I said, for me this was in some way a good rebalancing that made me less terrified, and I remained sceptical (though I was completely unprepared for how bad the pain got - also, I was sick throughout the later stages of labour, which no one ever mentioned as a possibility and it's hard to hypnobirth your way through!). But I really don't think you'd have had to be credulous or stupid to have thought that active birth, 'finding ways to access your oxytocin', a pool and not pushing was the answer to all birth problems, because I think the course - an NHS one - came very close to suggesting that, and heavily implied it. What it certainly did is suggest that women sometimes/often have themselves to blame if it doesn't all go beautifully - the teacher was pretty scornful about epidurals, and I'm pretty certain she'd say my tear was because I lay down - there was a definite undertone that some birth injuries are basically because women are lazy and either don't do their prep or try and cop out during labour.

AgentCooper:

Especially seeing posts on my pregnancy yoga Facebook group where everybody seemed to actively enjoy labour and got by on nothing but golden thread breathing and perhaps a wee bit of gas and air. I know it's daft, but it does make you feel like maybe you're not a natural mother.

I don't want to cast aspersions on people in your facebook group, but I found out that people do lie about birth and other issues to make themselves feel better. Neither of my babies slept through, and somehow everyone else I knew with similarly aged babies claimed to be getting full nights of sleep ... the truth started to seep out when the babies were a bit older.

You must realise that when people say 'your body knows what to do' that they're not actually denying the existence of ill health or obstructed labour etc?

I'm not necessarily convinced. When people say 'your body knows what to do' I'm fairly confident they don't mean haemorrhage/get irretrievably stuck/cut baby off from oxygen supply. Yet that is the reality of what some bodies 'do' in childbirth.

mini I find your attitude a bit callous and unfair too. Why are you getting so worked up? Surely having so many women reporting similar experiences (not just on this thread, but on MN threads generally) should make you pause and think there may be a problem.

I think it's unfair to imply that if women have a rose-tinted view of labour and their own powers therein (after being fully encouraged to have just that by popular culture and NHS HCPs), then they are idiots. Women are entitled to be able to rely on their HCPs to give them unbiased facts. Many of us may realise that this doesn't happen a lot of the time around birth, but others don't know this, and in the context of medical ethics should be able to rely on HCPs being honest with them. They should not need to trawl the internet researching medical info for themselves.