... about "natural birth" and "your body knows what to do"?

[ParsnipsAreTheDevil]

I keep seeing the whole "don't worry your body knows what to do" thing thrown at pregnant women and it was a massive part of the hypnobirthing course I did before
DS was born (he's 2 now). When it came to it it turned out my body didn't have a bloody clue what to do. In labour for 3 days, wasn't dilating, emergency c section and we both got sepsis. Felt like a massive failure afterwards thanks to the massive emphasis on natural birth and my body categorically NOT knowing what to do?

Aibu that what we should be saying to pregnant women is to keep an open mind about birth? I've met a few women since who had very similar experiences to me. Breathe the fecking baby out my arse.

You don’t have to, private healthcare gives you that choice imo.

I don’t see why I should have to suffer the indignity of a flat chest when most women have boobs. But I’m not entitled enough to think the tax payer should fund it

My cesarean costs a massive £87 more than a vaginal. Plus, if it were about costs, surely you support forced elective cesareans for all, as the NHS would be able to plan its staffing more accordingly and cut costs of midwives, midwifery units and training?

Nah, it’s funny how the “But the cost!” people never argue that one!

@NotAsGreenAsCabbageLooking there's no where to give birth privately where I live fyi.

Do you think woman are getting epidurals at the beginning of labour or something? They aren't btw. Pain management in labour is worse than in any other area of healthcare.

My body knew. Conceiving and birthing came easy to me. I had three non-medicated births because there just wasn't time.

But it hurt like death. The third time was the worst after I'd done hypno-birthing. Hypnobirthing was a mistake for me because I was trying to be like a cat, and merely observe the waves of pain. That was bullshit. I should have braced for pain, I wasn't a newbie.

It wasn't beautiful. The babies were marvellous but birth was not beautiful.

My body didn't know what to do with a huge baby stuck in a position wereby he was essentially bent over and unable to get out . Couple that with my apparabtly narrow pelvis .

Guess id have died in the old days .

Luckily I had no birth plan as even as a young un realised it was surely something that could have many complications .

I was correct and therefore have no regrets etc like some seem to do, just elated to get my son at the end of it.

Genuinely don't get all the weird pride surrounding giving birth in terms of the competitiveness with other women. Like , I grew a child that good enough for me thanks love

What I will saw about hypno-birthing is that the midwife didn't know I was pushing. I was in the pool in the dark, so no one was keeping an eye on on those things and it was a surprise to all of use when the baby popped out. God bless the midwife who caught her. I didn't know if I would have.

@kaytee87

Do you think woman are getting epidurals at the beginning of labour or something? They aren't btw. Pain management in labour is worse than in any other area of healthcare

I don’t think you’ve read my entire view on this. Women that are labouring and need drugs should have them. My view isn’t that everyone should be pushed to their absolute limit against their will. But for a woman with no previous experience of labour, with no MH issues, who just doesn’t want to hurt at all... I think it’s unrealistic for them go into it demanding drugs from the off. I don’t think it helps them tbh. Far better if they were mentally prepared and didn’t go in terrified.

I don't understand why you're talking about the nhs funding drugs etc. Believe me the nhs are not giving drugs to women at the start of labour just because they ask.

I don't understand why you're talking about the nhs funding drugs etc. Believe me the nhs are not giving drugs to women at the start of labour just because they ask.*

That was probably mor directed at me having an ELCS. Which costs only slightly more than a vaginal, so...not sure why it matters either.

I certainly did breathe the baby out, no drugs or gas & noting. Nothing but a birthing pool.

It was THE most empowering and euphoric experience of my life. I’m a huge advocate of hypnobirthing.

However Im a big believer in hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. Every mum to be I’ve talked to about hypnobirthing I’ve said trust your instincts, do / take what you need to and keep as mobile as you can.

Oh and it does hurt. Of course it does but don’t panic.

Maybe I am misinformed then, I’ve heard plenty of women say they will demand XYZ as is their right, they’ve sounded very certain of getting their way.. apologies if I am wrong.

Either way, going back to my original point... which was I am equally irritated by those adamant they will do it all naturally and those who demand every drug before they’ve ever felt a contraction.

My point was that no one knows how it will go, there’s no sense or reason going into it with a definitive idea of what will happen.

However Im a big believer in hoping for the best and preparing for the worst

Exactly this!

“I don't think we have increasing rates of defensive obstetric practice. Where does that idea come from?“

We CLEARLY have higher rates of defensive obstetric practice.

Every midwife in the country will tell you this.

The induction rate alone has gone up by 20% IN ONE YEAR.

there’s no sense or reason going into it with a definitive idea of what will happen.

There is though. While I had never given birth before, I knew

1. I hate feeling out of control
2. I don’t want vaginal stitches
3. I didn’t want a higher risk of injury to the child
4. I didn’t want to risk permanent vaginal damage
5. I hate feeling pain in general and don’t cope well with it. They used to sedate me for a blood test ffs.
6. I like to plan

Therefore, all these things strongly suggest a natural birth at home probably isn’t a good idea for me, and that something more medicalised would suit.

You may personally disagree with it but you can’t say there’s no point, because while I don’t know labour, I know myself.

“Pain management in labour is worse than in any other area of healthcare“

There is only one form of pain relief for labour which is truly effective, and that’s epidural.

And 1 in 10 of those don’t work.

Really not sure what the answer is.

*There is only one form of pain relief for labour which is truly effective, and that’s epidural.+

And 1 in 10 of those don’t work.

Do you have the stats for spinals?

I didn't want to know anythng about childbirth when I was 21 and I asked for an epidural as soon as the contractions started, that was 35 years aho and I got one.
I no sooner wanted to experience "natural" childbirth than I did a "natural" appendicectomy and I still don't.
I don't see why anyone should go through that unless they absolutely want to, after all you wouldn't even pull a toe nail out without a local anaethetic would you?

“But I think the "natural birth" movement is, generally, pretty pernicious and damaging and its high time we consigned it to the dustbin of history“

Actually the feeling among midwives and doctors is that we need to find better ways to support the normal physiology of birth within our maternity system to increase the safety of birth and to reduce the number of women experiencing avoidable complications.

In other words the thrust of ideas in relation to practice is towards normality, not away from it.

I no sooner wanted to experience "natural" childbirth than I did a "natural" appendicectomy and I still don't.
I don't see why anyone should go through that unless they absolutely want to, after all you wouldn't even pull a toe nail out without a local anaethetic would you?

This are exactly my feelings on it.

“after all you wouldn't even pull a toe nail out without a local anaethetic would you“

It depends what your priorities are.

If you want to reduce the likelihood of problems in your birth that leave you with a needing an instrumental delivery, and you don’t want to labour in an environment (an obstetric unit) where you have a higher chance of needing an emergency caesarean, then you may choose to use a birth centre/give birth at home and to not have an epidural.

If you value excellent pain relief over the chance of an uncomplicated birth then you head for an OU and ask for an epidural.

“Do you have the stats for spinals“

No, but I’m sure it’s significantly lower.

My stats come from Obstetric Anaesthetists Association website.

“And anyone who thinks breathing is going to help the when they are contracting and heavily dilated is in for a very very rude awakening“

You are just wrong. It helps lots and lots of women.

“I truly beleive we need to find a balance between the over medicalisation of childbirth and the woo hynobirthing process.”

Hypnobirthing helps many people have more positive experiences of labour REGARDLESS of the degree of medicalisation. In fact the reason why so many modern midwives train to teach it and know how support the use of it is because they see it as a very useful tool for women labouring in environments which are absolutely not conducive to a well functioning labour.

It really isn’t ‘woo’. There is a sound physiological rationale for the techniques and how they help women have happier, calmer births.

Disclaimer: I’m not a Hypnobirthing teacher!

“But the natural brigade probaly call that natural selection”.

I’d like to think you’re joking, but I think you’re probably genuinely spiteful and horribly misguided.

I wouldn’t have my appendix out without anaesthetic either. But I did have my first and 3rd babies without epidural. (My second was a c section- and no, I didn’t do that without anaesthetic.)

I feel as though there’s very little point trying to explain why, because some people are just unable to imagine that other people have different views and do things differently to them....
But here goes anyway...
Some women- not all women - but some women, myself included, don’t see labour and birth in the same way as medical interventions. If something is wrong, and we need surgery, or a painful corrective procedude, we would have anaesthetic. But we dont see birth in the same way. We want to experience the sensation (even though it fucking hurts!)

It’s not the best analogy, but I suppose the closest I can think of is something like running a marathon. It’s not something you have to do, it’s not something everyone wants to do and it’s physically very tough and painful. But there is a sense of having pushed your body to an extreme in a way that’s incredibly empowering.

That’s the best I can try to describe it. However I fully understand that some women don’t want that, they want birth to be as pain free as possible and that’s fine. I just think respect works both ways round. When people scoff ‘I wouldn’t have a tooth pulled without pain relief’ or ‘there are no medals for going without pain relief’ it’s actually disrespecting those of us who do go for natural birth. It’s implying that we haven’t thought it through, that we’re doing some daft irrational thing when in fact many of us have researched, thought very hard about it, discussed with others and come to an informed choice.

Isn't it more anger towards HCPs denying adequate pain relief/fobbing women off and deciding for them that it will be natural, that people are railing against, Momo? Not so much women who choose to forego pain relief?