Parents saying 'no thank you' to manage behaviour

[oppossum]

I’m hearing this a lot suddenly,

Eg

Small toddler trying to run off, no thank you being repeated

Or

Hitting siblings etc, no thank you

It seems so wishy washy and non directive, even if you want to use positive language. Wouldn’t you at least say ‘stay near mummy’ or ‘kind hands’ or ‘only touching children’s things please. (Though I’m more of a clear ‘no’ person with small toddlers than need to be told immediately not to do something dangerous).

Is this just my neck of the woods, or is it a new thing? I’m on holiday and they were doing it here too, one kid was being a bit of a nightmare- an eight year old approx in a queue bumping off people and running up and down with flailing arms. Was told no thank you about 20 times...

MoonsAndJunes - my 4 year old nephew has used it on me for an instruction a couple of times, said in a beautifully polite and sweet tone! I find a ‘pardon’ with an ‘adapted teacher look’ (can’t being the full look out for just anything) usually gets him to comply with getting dressed/brushing teeth/putting shoes on etc.

I used ‘thank you’ in the classroom as an indicator it wasn’t a request, e.g. coats on for playtime, thank you OR tuck your chairs under the table, thank you. It implies compliance, rather than ‘please’ which is a request and so suggests it is optional.

I do think it’s all in the tone of voice and delivery though - I have a ‘teacher tone/voice’ and a ‘look’ that have been perfected over many years, which I’m sure a lot of parents get from being with their children too. Another of my favourites is, ‘I beg your pardon?’ with a ‘look’ after bad language/rudeness - 9/10 my nephews apologise without any further requests necessary.

I think all this 'no thank you' business may be related to the general British way of communicating which involves saying nice things that in reality carry a very different meaning. :)

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/chart-shows-what-british-people-say-what-they-really-mean-and-what-others-understand-a6730046.html

When training to teach, we were advised to say 'thank you' after a request as it assumes compliance. It's relatively effective.

'We are not at home to Mrs Rude'- is a favourite of mine, it just sounds so deliciously prim it stops them in their tracks.

I also often say 'Stop that or there will be consequences'- I have never had to define what those consequences would be- keeping it vague seems to have more of an impact. I have never heard people say 'No thank you ' though.

Oh I love that^^ “we are not at home to Mrs Rude”. Pilfering that!

If it’s really, REALLY bad behaviour I say they will be in “serious trouble”. Hope they never ask me what that might entail, as I have no idea myself!

It depends on circumstance.

Messing about with his milk cup at the table - ‘no, thank you. Have a drink or put it down’.
If he complies lots of praise, ‘thank you for drinking carefully it hasn’t spilled at all, well done’.
If he doesn’t comply. Firmer. ‘No, if you don’t drink it or put it down I will take it away’
Followed by taking it away.
I try to avoid telling him what I don’t want him to do (from the how to talk to little children book) as he just seems to hear ‘mess with the milk cup’ instead of ‘don’t mess with the milk cup’ it also doesn’t tell him what I expect him to do with it. So framing it as a positive request gives him a chance to do the right thing.

In the other hand if it’s dangerous or hurting someone it’s much sharper.
Letting go of my hand and running off ‘DS! Stop!’ Followed by a calmer ‘come back to mummy’ and consequences, like being picked up or strapped into the buggy if he doesn’t comply. He’s more likely to stop out of shock because he isn’t often shouted at because we only use it for really important things.

The gentle hands thing we do use but demonstrate what that means, open flat hand stroking for us. I also only tend to use it for things like pinching that are uncomfortable rather than more serious like biting or hitting. Where he gets a sharp ‘no, no biting’ and put down away from me. I explain that he’s hurt mummy and he should now say sorry with a cuddle.

I’ve no idea if all this is right but like most parents I suspect we are muddling through with a mixture of our own instincts, the way we were raised, what other people suggest, the last book we read, what nursery do, what we see on TV etc. Then modify things that aren’t working.

There are some obviously wrong ways to do it but I’m pretty sure ‘no, thank you’ isn’t one of those and what’s right is different for every child. So everyone will have a different view on what works.

Re other peoples kids bashing into you in queues, etc., I have a look' my dds used to request now and then - 'Do your scary face, Mum!' - upon which they'd squeal and hide behind the sofa cushions.
Works a treat with PITA little buggers when out.
And the parent can hardly say anything even if the little darling says, 'Mummy, that lady looked at me!'

I think sometimes people take parenting techniques which can work brilliantly for the 5-16 age group, and try to apply them to toddlers, who are basically bald chimps.

I use "No, thank you" quite a bit, along with (for ds1 who has adhd and asd) a hand held out like a stop sign. He is 15, more like functionally 11 or 12, and it works brilliantly. As many teachers have said, it assumes compliance, making compliance more likely. Using that firm, unspoken "AND I MEAN RIGHT FUCKING NOW" voice is the trick.

But using it sweetly on a three year old will get you NOWHERE. They don't have the impulse control to think through the consequences of what they're doing unless the consequences or clear and enforced.

My kids are quite compliant. ONly quite, we still have moments of "WHY ARE THERE CHEERIOS ON THE STAIR CARPET, WHY????" But they didn't used to be, they used to be defiant little horrors all the tiime and I regularly lost the plot until they were both in double figures. They had difficult personalities to try and mesh together. "No, thank you" works on both. It's polite (doesn't trigger ds2's massive sense of injustice) and it is non-negotiable (Ds1 needs steel reinforced boundaries)

Saying no thank you instead of just no makes it sound like the hitting (or verbal abuse or whatever) is something he is giving me - something both he and I have a choice in. He is choosing to hit. I am choosing to make him stop. Same as if he was forcing a cake on me.
Now you see I find this very confusing (and I have ASD). Hitting you should not be an option - it's unacceptable. He needs to know that and he learns that by you saying 'no, you are not to hit me'. By plonking a thank you in it you're making it sound like sometimes it's fine to hit you, depending on whether you're saying no before it or yes. Bear in mind that autistic people can take things much more literally you need to be very clear. No thank you to cake because you might want some next time, no to hitting because that's not acceptable now or in the future.

Oh and that link to the independent is interesting. An identical table has been floating around my company since before I joined 10 years ago as an ‘Anglo-dutch’ translation guide - it’s credited to someone called Eva Reindl sourced from Expatica. I wonder where the Independent picked it up as it’s not credited and it’s been changed to European rather than Dutch in the final column.

Anyway, somewhat off topic. I do think that as a culture we tend to use polite phrases that are code for other things and our children learn them early.

"No thank you" reminds me of: "Thank you for your patience... Your call is very important to us...[hideous muzak]". The "Thank you" is very galling- feels like they are adding insult to injury.

I don't think my misbehaving kids would have fallen for this, at least not if I had tried it on them. Perhaps a teacher could have pulled it off.

Re other peoples kids bashing into you in queues, etc., I have a look' my dds used to request now and then - 'Do your scary face, Mum!' - upon which they'd squeal and hide behind the sofa cushions.

TBH I have more problem with adults bashing into me in queues, who also get a hard stare.

I think toddlers are too young for using no thank you. They need proper understanding that they shouldn't be doing it first and the impulse control not to do it otherwise it is just unnecessary words that go over their head.

@ChristyMoore

I also hope ‘serious trouble’ is never fully tested (it hasn’t so far, thankfully), as I’m not 100% certain what it is. Same as, “you will not like where this is going - you haven’t seen me truly cross” - which is true, but again I’ve never had to get ‘truly cross’, thankfully.

I like a more straightforward and clear direction personally. But clearly these things need to be age appropriate.

So i would say "NO! We do not hit/bite/snatch etc"
Then "I have just told you not to hit/bite/scratch, if you do that again [this] will happen"
Then [no words] and [this] happens

It's worked for me for 19yrs and my boys have no lasting effects from my raised voice or the consequence. And they still know I mean it.

DH is a teacher, he uses this as a technique. As pps say, it assumes compliance.

I find a no thank you in a firm voice with a Paddington stare quite effective at work.

It's not what you say but how you say it!