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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To envy 'proper grown ups'?

246 replies

RedZebra · 26/07/2018 00:15

Lately I've been thinking about how I wish I was more of a 'proper grown up' and feeling a bit of Envy towards people who are. Here's my list of what IMHO makes a proper grown up:

People who seem to have their shit together:

  • Have good financial plans / approach e.g. stuff like
    • mortgage paid off early in life
    • pensions
    • ISAs
    • second homes
    • homes they rent out
  • Seem confident and decisive
  • Have some kind of polish / upstanding citizen feel about them (hard to put finger on this)
  • Not big drinkers or pot smokers
  • Have interests and hobbies e.g. triathlon, cycling
  • Have regular holidays planned well in advance
  • Have regular idyllic seeming big family meals and get togethers at Easter and Christmas and family birthdays
  • Have families that are proper-seeming and not nuts or chaotic
  • Have good professions and are well respected
  • Have well behaved children with interesting hobbies who get top grades

AIBU to envy these types of people?

How do people who tick most of the above do it? How do they 'know' to do and be all the right things as adults? Do you think it's a kind of family training or do you think you can acquire this approach?

OP posts:
WilyMinx · 26/07/2018 09:21

These are the sort of grown ups I am always in awe of

  • Go on driving holidays in foreign countries
  • Regularly travel (or moved abroad) alone
  • Can cook a proper roast dinner from scratch
  • Can speak more than 2 languages (preferably self taught or learned via a course, rather than a parent being a native speaker)
  • Do exercise 3x or more a week
  • Reads newspapers (excluding free publications)
  • Owns more 5 or more suits
PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 26/07/2018 09:22

The things you mention have nothing to do with being a "proper adult" or "having their shit together" - they're about coming from a rich family or having been born at a time when it was still possible for an ordinary but reasonably affluent person to amass that kind of wealth through their own efforts.

What an absurd thing to say, I find it no coincidence that in my mid 40s land looking back at my peer group that the people who 'had their shit together' are generally in a much better place financially then the people who did not. And no, these 'proper adults' did not come from wealthy families or benefit from hand outs, they by and large worked hard at school/uni, scrimped and saved in their 20s, did not go on foreign holidays or felt the need to buy flash cars, clothes or gadgets.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 26/07/2018 09:24

Owns more 5 or more suits

An interesting observation !

Namechangenumber57 · 26/07/2018 09:33

.

LoveInTokyo · 26/07/2018 09:34

PanGalaticGargleBlaster

But people in their 20s now will not be able to achieve the same wealth as those in their 40s now, no matter how much scrimping and saving they do.

They start their working lives with debts that those in their 40s never had. (Or they don't go to university and are barred from entering "graduate" jobs which those in their 40s without degrees could still access.) They will never have access to the kind of pension plans that those in their 40s were able to join two decades ago. The cost of housing as a multiple of salaries is many times higher than it was two decades ago.

These are simple facts.

Pippylou · 26/07/2018 09:40

I have quite a few of the items off your list done. However, I'm as scruffy as hell, never go anywhere & am just failing at social stuff spectacularly, atm. I feel like a little kid surrounded by grown ups, then realise people perceive me as pretty old.

The wider family stuff is a nightmare. I think you need a core of sensible, sociable people if you want an extended family that do stuff together.

Plughole3 · 26/07/2018 09:42

I always think how much would todays 20 year olds have to earn to be able to buy a house, let alone pay off the mortgage early. Then buy a 2nd home when the lending criteria is so much stricter & with new tax changes not as profitable. On top of this save for a pension when so many schemes are closed or not anywhere near as generous as before.

blueskiesandforests · 26/07/2018 09:44

Oh Willy Im your definition of a grown up Grin except for the suits. Who want to be a stuffed suit? I owned lots of suits in my early 20s working in an investment bank as a PA. Earned more than I do now too, with bonuses that doubled my salary annually. It was fun but utterly soulless and without genuine purpose. Got sick if it after 5 years and moved on to do something more rewarding in more important ways than the financial.

CSIblonde · 26/07/2018 09:54

I don't see those things as grown up OP, it's a fantasy of a 'perfect' life of wealth. I've worked for a few bosses with massive wealth & this lifestyle. They worked insane hours for their money. They were stressed, miserable, hardly saw their kids and the quality of that life isn't what you think.

ThomasinaMouse · 26/07/2018 09:54

If i own loads of suits but never wear them does that count. Oh and they're all second hand/hand me downs!

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 26/07/2018 10:01

LoveInTokyo

I broadly agree with much of what you say about the additional barriers being in place for younger people today. I objected to your claim that many of the things on the list were only achievable if you came from a 'rich family' or were 'reasonably affluent' to begin with. Even with the under 30s today there is still a strong correlation between those who 'have their shit together' and 'success'.

pennycarbonara · 26/07/2018 10:06

Owning a second home is nothing to aspire to IMO. Just keeps other folks from having one home.

Yes. I would generally have less respect for someone for this, except where it's letting on a philanthropic basis at below market rent, balancing the books in an essential but low paying business such as farming, or people no longer able to do standard jobs because of health issues. (And the latter would inevitably either have had good careers cut short and/or well off relatives to help set them up, so more of the luck which Rosy rightly identified).

The sorts of people described in the OP I would actually stereotype as less grown up than those with less money, because unless they are working in a frontline public service they are heavily insulated from the current experiences of people unlike themselves. (Self-made people who knew what it was like on a low income 30 or 40 years ago might now really grok how things have changed, and too often seem to think others should be able to pull themselves up by the bootstraps without understanding what contributes to this not being possible for everyone.) Obviously there are rich people who are very aware and empathic but there are plenty who aren't too.

I see being grown up as primarily related to skills and knowledge; able to deal unfazed and independently with officialdom, tradesmen, emergencies and so on and stay organised and not exceed a budget. Keep on top of cleaning, able to do some DIY whilst knowing your limits, that sort of thing. Not materially extravagant, even if they can afford it, especially not on things where differences are cosmetic rather than substantially functional, because they no longer care what anyone thinks about fashion, brands and so on.

My less realistic ideas of being grown up in my twenties involved, on top of being capable in dealing with various situations, having very high energy levels and needing little sleep: e.g. all in one evening goes to gym or evening class (during course of the week does both), cooks from scratch, cleans a bit or does personal admin so there's more time for fun at the weekend, talks to friends a bit, watches talked-about TV programmes, writes a substantial and intelligent blog post, reads at least 50 pages of a book. Also goes out 2-3 times a week during the week to bar/ cinema/ exhibition with no adverse effect on work performance or state of home. But the great thing about getting older is that feeling so led by the media seems to diminish, most people don't seem to be doing as much anyway and so it's fine if you don't.

The things that still get in the way of fulfilling my own ideas of grown up are all health-related. If one condition got a lot better I would feel I was there according to my own principles. That sense of feeling grown up only started after I'd turned the age my mother was when I was born, which must have something to do with it.

LoveInTokyo · 26/07/2018 10:07

No, I think today you have to be from a rich family to achieve these things, because earning a high salary and being financially sensible just won't cut it anymore.

And when I said "reasonably affluent", I guess what I was alluding to is the fact that if you were dirt poor in the 70s you wouldn't be able to buy a nice house or have a second home or decent pension provision any more than if you are dirt poor now. But with a reasonable income you could have done, whereas now that's not enough.

Plughole3 · 26/07/2018 10:15

Agree with the above

Eliza9917 · 26/07/2018 10:16

People who seem to have their shit together:

  • Have good financial plans / approach e.g. stuff like
  • mortgage paid off early in life
  • pensions
  • ISAs
  • second homes
  • homes they rent out
  • Seem confident and decisive
  • Have some kind of polish / upstanding citizen feel about them (hard to put finger on this)
  • Not big drinkers or pot smokers
  • Have interests and hobbies e.g. triathlon, cycling
  • Have regular holidays planned well in advance
  • Have regular idyllic seeming big family meals and get togethers at Easter and Christmas and family birthdays
  • Have families that are proper-seeming and not nuts or chaotic
  • Have good professions and are well respected
  • Have well behaved children with interesting hobbies who get top grades

I've got/do most of that and I don't feel like a 'proper' grown up. I still feel like I'm about 18/19/20 I suppose, not 37 even though my life is much different, I don't feel different. Hard to explain.

karyatide · 26/07/2018 10:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AStatelyPleasureDome · 26/07/2018 10:27

To me being a proper grown up means having the confidence to be yourself, taking responsibility for yourself and others, and not being plagued by the insecurities which require you to be constantly comparing yourself with others. Wealth and status are irrelevant.
I tick most of your boxes now, as I am fortunate to be one of the 10% of Baby Boomers who had a free university and professional education (lawyer), but don't feel that any of the items are of significance.

I would say that the single thing that made me feel like a grown up was having my DC, as I became responsible for another human being other than myself. They have all done well, as a result of their own efforts of course, but also to some extent because they have had our support in following their dreams.

The people I really admire are those who cope with adversity, shitty jobs, DC with special needs, abusive or useless partners or no partner at all, lack of family support, straitened finances etc and still manage to cope and be positive. I know a few individuals like that and I have far more admiration and respect for them as proper grown ups than I do for some of those who tick your boxes, but who actually aren't very nice human beings.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 26/07/2018 10:30

No, I think today you have to be from a rich family to achieve these things, because earning a high salary and being financially sensible just won't cut it anymore.

I appreciate this is anecdotal but I work in engineering, I have interviewed and offered jobs to hundreds of grads over the last 15 years or so and have tracked their careers and achievements over the same period and you do notice certain trends and behaviours. These grads start on good money (around £25 - 30k) which increases quite a bit once they are chartered a few years later. For example, the 'got their shit together' folk are the ones who are not buying lunch and several Costa coffees everyday, they cycle to work, don't put holidays on credit cards, dont buy BMW's on lease purchase, dont insist on renting a flat in semi-affluent parts of town or buying iphone 10s and Beats headphones etc. These people were not existing in poverty or leading fantastically dull lives , they all just seemed have some semblance of plan in place and stuck to it. They could say 'no' to peer group pressure. They made sure they were in contention for those promotions, or were not afraid to switch companies to get to that next rung, they took on the difficult assignments away from home, they bought the beat up fixer upper one bed first home in the unfashionable part of town when their mates laughed at them for choosing to live in an 'edgy' area. I found it no surprise that those people despite getting no financial assistance whatsoever were home owners before the age of 30 and well advanced in their careers while many of their fellow grads were still living in flat shares and living for the weekend. As I say, these observations are anecdotal but when you see the above scenarios repeatedly played out before you over the years you cant help but notice the achievements of the 'got their shit together' crowd.

faeriequeen · 26/07/2018 10:31

We have some of those things. I think the not drinking too much or smoking pot at all really helps, as that can make life very chaotic and take up lots of money.
Savings are a good way to start, if you can. I put away a small amount each week and it gives me a feeling of security to watch it grow.

rainbowskies · 26/07/2018 10:42

faeriequeen
I think the not drinking too much or smoking pot at all really helps, as that can make life very chaotic and take up lots of money.

Absolutely. My ILs came into money when DH was a child. They could have had a second home, investments for their children, super schools... Instead they drank it and lived in a council house.

pennycarbonara · 26/07/2018 10:45

PanGalacticGargleBlaster What you said highlights the way that the popular ideas of what people should be doing in their twenties and early 30s, and what they 'should' have achieved by 35/40 don't really fit together. It's actually really contradictory - but all ultimately driven by advertising.

I hadn't quite realised how ridiculous it was before - these stages are outdated (the idea that you can mess about in your twenties and then quickly turn things around in 2 or 3 years in your mid 30s and buy a property) because it takes such a long time for people to save for mortgages now in many parts of the country, and cost of food has gone up so much in the last 10 years. It was confusing being in a generation where these trends were on their way out, but it wasn't talked about the way it has been more recently.

why2018 · 26/07/2018 10:45

Forgive my ignorance and for derailing my thread, but if “no one can tell” your child has a disability, why the need for a label in the first place? Genuinely wondering.

why2018 · 26/07/2018 10:46

Sorry, wrong thread Blush

LoveInTokyo · 26/07/2018 10:56

PanGalaticGargleBlaster

Of course people with their shit together at any age will generally do better than other people the same age with broadly the same advantages who don't have their shit together.

But a 25 year old with their shit together today will not achieve the same wealth as a 25 year old who has their shit together 20 years ago (i.e. a 45 year old today), and will probably still not achieve the same wealth as someone of 45 who had their shit more or less together when they were 25.

The goalposts have changed entirely.

I don't think this is a particularly controversial point of view.

LavendarGreen · 26/07/2018 11:24

@LoveInTokyo

Of course people with their shit together at any age will generally do better than other people the same age with broadly the same advantages who don't have their shit together.

But a 25 year old with their shit together today will not achieve the same wealth as a 25 year old who has their shit together 20 years ago (i.e. a 45 year old today), and will probably still not achieve the same wealth as someone of 45 who had their shit more or less together when they were 25.

The goalposts have changed entirely.

I don't think this is a particularly controversial point of view.

This ^ in spades.

I don't think people who 'had it better' back in the day (pre mid 1980's) should be reviled, as it's not exactly their fault, and anyone would have taken the same chances, (for free uni and cheap housing and gold-plated pensions,) had they been available.

However, it's utterly farcical to deny that young people have the same opportunities now, as people had pre mid 1980's. As you said, no matter how hard they work, life is so different now.... It's so much more difficult to get on the property ladder, private pensions have crashed and burned (and left people with nothing,) people leave uni with between 35 and 45 grand of debt, many people have not had a pay rise in over a decade, and there is no such thing as a job for life now.