Heartbroken that I'm being forced to sell mum's house, she worked hard for it and paid her national insurance

[Jkoakham]

And now her savings are running out I will need to sell her house to carry on funding it.

It all seems to very unfair, her house was supposed to be passed to me but instead it's affectively passed to government and private companies.

I thought the dimentia tax had been can cancelled?

why is it fair to spring it on her at the end of her life and cause distress?

At least people growing up now know what will happen and can plan

You have got to be kidding me?

My grandfather is 88 and has been aware of his impending old age all of his days.

Your family must be incredibly naive to think otherwise

That's not her fault if her money wasn't invested properly, it wasn't her control. Why should she have to pay twice because others messed up?

What exactly do you think she is paying twice for??

I'm completely baffled by this

It hasn't been sprung on her, the system didn't just change this week. If you and your DM didn't look into this years ago that's nobody else's fault.

As for not having much from the NHS...


Having one baby cost the NHS £4,200 - £8,700


Assuming you paid NI from 18 till 65 (47 years) and your birth cost some where in the middle £6,500 you'd have to pay £137 a year to cover the cost of just that one baby.


That's not covering normal gp appointments, prescriptions, additional children, children's care.


AND THEN NI is supposed to fund any benefits you may need and a pension (£164/week?) when for potentially 20+ years.

The £166 a month that gets taken from my pay isn't being squirrelled away for MY NHS, benefits and pension it's paying for EVERYONE who needs it now.

I pay out a lot in NI contributions but know it will never cover care Home costs along with everything else
My property will and it’s value will buy me choice
If my DC don’t inherit it will be because I needed it, they could be retired themselves by then anyway!
I care for my own elderly parents in their own home along with paid help, when they can no longer do so I will choose them the best option they can afford
I have no expectation that I will get a penny neither do they expect not to pay for this
I think OP is being bit naive
Try working out how much your DM paid in NI over her working life and what benefit she has had

There are plenty of ways around inheritance tax. The most obvious putting your children on the deeds of your house long before you die. And setting up trust funds early.
Plenty of wealthy people do this to avoid IHT so when they die they don’t look particularly rich.

Sprung on her? How ridiculous OP.

Also you say she hasn't taken much out re NHS etc but part of that tax and NI would have also been towards your education, health treatments, birth, hospital costs any any siblings you may not have or had, along with police, fire, rubbish collections, all the rest of it.

She wasn't just paying it for herself, none of us do.

It's called a Welfare state.

I am guessing that you are angry because you have left it too late to make alternative arrangements ie: leave it in a trust etc.

I am late 40's and have a severely disabled child who will need full time care when my Husband and I pass away. We have arrangements in place already regarding our assets. My Son is 13 and could easily live for 70 years.

Who should pay for that? Both my DH and I started work at 16 and DH pays top rate tax, but in no way have we ever thought that the state will be able to provide our DS with the care he will need.

So, o/p, why don’t you move into your mums house, take care of her so she doesn’t need paid care, then inherit the house?

You can’t have the house and funded care.

I will inherit nothing, even though my dad left over a million in assets. Inheritance is never guaranteed.

But why is it fair to spring it on her at the end of her life

It was the situation 20 years ago with my DGP.

It's not like the moving goals for pensionable age - that have been sprung on people - it's been the case for a long period of time.

NI is essential a tax - it's not invested current workers are ones paying for retirees pensions and health care. There are more pensioners to pay for and fewer workers to pay the amounts needed.

The vast majority of workers including one who started work at 16 - as did my parents and IL - take out more than they have ever put in. It's only the very few really high earners who put more in than they take out.

The reality is that on average ni paid throughout someone’s working life does not cover the cost of care now that we are all living longer.

I think it sucks but the money has to come from somewhere and can’t expect he younger generation of tax payers to cover it all.

I do like the idea that everyone pays a large lump sum on retirement and the cost of potential furture care is covered for everyone rather than it being a lottery. That seems more fair than some people getting hit and some not. It seems so sad that the way you live the last few years of your life can have such a drastic impact on your estate one way or the other.

What about the people who don’t have a large lump sum, how do you enforce it?

By. Forcing them to downsize sell their houses i guess. They would are only be doing what they are doing to people now just earlier in their lives, meaning the amount would be more even accross the population.

Nothing is ideal but when people are loving almost as long after their retirement as their working lives were what do people expect?

Then it’s oretty much the same as now

People without houses to sell won’t have it

I am for people using assets btw but how it is now

MN recieved wisdom on tax contributions seems a bit of a trap.

It’s either:
you almost certainly haven’t paid in as much as or more than you’ve taken, so stop complaining

Or:
Youre very lucky to have made enough money to be a net contriutor, so stop complaining.

Redneck Stumpy , good luck with that one! To fund a pension pot sufficient to sustain you comfortably for possibly thirty years post retirement in an economy where inflation rises faster that interest rates do would make a huge dent in your income, Why do you think the fat cats always have very generous pension rights tied tightly into their conditions of employment?

And as for funding your own health care, well I wouldn't fancy being a seventy year old opted out of the NHS and trying to renew my private health insurance policy after say claiming for treatment to a broken wrist after a fall.

viques

I have a private pension which I manage myself and is doing well. I would be better off investing additional money into that rather than relying on the government.

By the time I retire there will be no NHS or government pension so I am basically throwing that money away right now.

She is paying for a place to live where she can have food, personal and social care. The health care component is funded, the rest is not

the definition of healthcare and social care is somewhat blurred.

eg My Mum had a stroke, had she survived the end of life 3 month funded care, she would be bed ridden, unable to move any part of body other than some movement in her arm, double incontinent, drip for feeding, needed turning every 2 hours, barely able to communicate.... it was deemed that ALL of that came under social care and would need to be funded, any medical care subsequently required would be provided via GP or 999 services.
Looking after her at home (my preferred option, using deferred payment against the house to fund full time at home care) the council would provide 3 x 45mins daily of care but not at w/e's, they were unable to provide this as when it went to tender, they had no response, which is also what happened when i tried to get care provided... there just is nt the staff out there, they are leaving healthcare in droves, can earn more for less work at a super market.

As i said earlier, its all down to choices we all make.

by the time I retire there will be no NHS

You might need it in the interim though! And there will be some sort of healthcare provision, though how it will be funded is another matter.

Good luck with your pension, my cousins husband thought he had a good private pension fund, unfortunately it turned out to be one of the ones that fell apart. Ironically he took money out of his NHS pension pot to build up the private one, they never recovered financially , the compensation they got was a pittance compared to what they lost and the years of anxiety it caused.

There will always be some kind of healthcare provision. We are not going to go back to people dying in the streets because of a lack of money.

So, you'll do anything to help your Mum get the care she needs as long as you get a load of stuff when she dies?

YABVVVVU

Motherhood Then your DP is obviously very well paid.

I paid oodles of national insurance for 40 years to ensure I received the minimum state pension (this was before the new larger pension) and it covered me for unemployment, NHS (used it very rarely then) and to pay the pensions of those who had reached pension age before me.
Because I have a very small private pension - I pay tax on my total pension.

I am quite happy not to be a hated burden on society by selling up my house (which I will not need any more) to pay for the best care home I can get - most of us feel the same.
I do not expect the taxpayer (of which I will still be one even when in the care home) to pay for my remaining days. Just as I was OK with my NI and tax when I worked being doled out in pensioners then.
IHT - not rich enough for my inheritors to pay any of that

We are currently paying for nursing care for my father. It's £50k a year. We drop another £30k a year on childcare. Why all of this isn't fully deductible against our income is beyond me. Right now I'm thankful we live in America and pay lower taxes. If we lived in the U.K. it would be me doing all of the work myself because we wouldn't be able to afford any of this after taxes.

Nursing homes charging £52k a year is also a huge problem. They need to split out medical costs from housing and the NHS/councils should cover medical costs.

This thread illustrates why T May had such a problem when she proposed some pretty sensible shared costs plans for old age care that everyone with a house in the SE objected to. She had to drop the plans. So it so hard to be fair and just in this area.

On the suggestion above you can p ut houses into child's names - only if you pay them a market rent and want to risk their spouse taking it on a divorce or indeed the child dying before you. (I have a 70+ neighbour who is now going to die after his adult child so his lawyers are rushing around moving properties back into the father's name).

IHT is a fairly regional thing too as if my house were plonked back in Newcastle where I am from we would not have any IHT to pay if I were to die and as my children live in the SE they need more money than in the NE to buy the same property. They also have to pay more for things like childcare costs and rents.

Be grateful that she has assets to sell to fund her care and that you will have choice.