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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Heartbroken that I'm being forced to sell mum's house, she worked hard for it and paid her national insurance

999 replies

Jkoakham · 25/07/2018 09:28

And now her savings are running out I will need to sell her house to carry on funding it.

It all seems to very unfair, her house was supposed to be passed to me but instead it's affectively passed to government and private companies.

I thought the dimentia tax had been can cancelled?

OP posts:
lulu12345 · 26/07/2018 12:11

She's already paid for it with her stamp is the point.

Ok.. I understand your point now. Unfortunately though we know now that this dream sold by previous governments was unsustainable and the contributions made by your mother and her generation weren't invested in order to fund her retirement, they were all pretty much spent immediately, and so now we find ourselves in the position where the cost of elderly care for all would be hugely in excess of national insurance collections.

runningkeenster · 26/07/2018 12:12

40% inheritance tax on money that has already been taxed is scandalous

40% isn't enough. I'd rather see an IHT rate of 50% plus and allow people who need care to have it for free.

IHT is the single most wealth-redistributing tax there is. Everyone gets a decent amount tax free and then you only pay the 40% on what's left. It's not 40% of everything. When you inherit you're getting something for nothing.

As I've said repeatedly on here, if I had cancer my treatment would be covered, if I have Parkinsons I am told I need social care and it's not. It is massively unfair and we do need to pay more taxes to cover it and I'd happily start with increasing IHT.

crunchymint · 26/07/2018 12:16

The money is income for the person receiving it. They have not been taxed on that unearned income once.

Original poster
Jkoakham · 26/07/2018 12:16

That's not her fault if her money wasn't invested properly, it wasn't her control. Why should she have to pay twice because others messed up?

OP posts:
Xenia · 26/07/2018 12:17

..although IHT is voluntary to an extent. I have helped 3 children with housing so far and if I need care it would be in 30 years' time - probably those gifts and eg my funding them at university would not be regarded as deliberate attempts to avoid care home fees (although in theory the state can go back as long as it like - another thing that needs to be made more clear - if you buy your child a nice bike is that regarded as avoiding later car home fees, if you pay their university rent? If you give htem £10k 20 years before you need a care home?)

catlady34 · 26/07/2018 12:18

I doubt your mother's NI contributions would cover her nursing home fees for long once you've deducted what she's already received in NHS care, education, state pension and maternity pay.

Original poster
Jkoakham · 26/07/2018 12:22

She's received very little in NHS, left school at 16 and only gets a state pension that is a pittance. Her ni contributions if invested have barely been touched!

OP posts:
mimibunz · 26/07/2018 12:26

IHT will only properly re-distribute wealth when the wealthy are forced to pay. As it is it’s the middle ground tax payer bearing the brunt of the tax because they earn enough to pay but not enough to open an offshore account.

lulu12345 · 26/07/2018 12:32

That's not her fault if her money wasn't invested properly, it wasn't her control. Why should she have to pay twice because others messed up?

I agree not her fault that the government overpromised but this is the reality of the situation.. someone needs to pay for her living costs now that she's retired and it's probably most fair if it's her

olderthanyouthink · 26/07/2018 12:32

OP, her healthcare (medical treatment) is free though. The social care (washing, feeding, housing etc) she needs isn't though, that's not free for any adult

I've been "told" that I will be able to claim state pension at 68, the reality it that by time I get there in 45 years that age will probably have gone up. What am I supposed to do stomp my feet and pout when I get there and the goal posts have moved or be prepared to fund it myself?
You're mad if you believe that the situation when your young will be the situation when you're old (granted people may have had more faith in the gov way back when your DM was young).

Also I don't think this would be such a big deal if houses weren't worth so much.

It's a much bigger deal now because buying is some much harder and "losing" £300k is harder than losing £150k (current value of the house I grew up in vs what it "should"be worth from the purchase in the early 90's)

My grandparents have about £3m worth of property between them, they didn't earn that money though they worked hard to get the properties. It is slightly sickening thinking that all of that could end up spent of care homes but it may come to that - I really hope it doesn't because I don't want them to languish with failing health for a long time stopping them living their lives as is currently happening to one of them. It would be less upsetting losing that inheritance if that wasn't most of their descendants best hope of being about to buy where we live and keep the family together.

MarshaBradyo · 26/07/2018 12:32

The rules are vague, who knows what time limit it is for deprivation of assets

Tax feels huge for the highest go higher and we’d probably see more avoid it

It feels right as it is now, average London homes owned by average hard workers exempt much like rest of the country

hatgirl · 26/07/2018 12:33

if I had cancer my treatment would be covered, if I have Parkinsons I am told I need social care and it's not.

If you had cancer your medical treatment would be covered. If you lived in an area with good hospice/ outreach provision you may get some extra support on top of that and some end of life care, but if you needed social care long term you would pay for it like anyone else.

OP any nursing/medical care your mum gets is funded still by the NHS. So what she 'paid in' for she is still receiving. Her social care and housing requirements are not funded

lulu12345 · 26/07/2018 12:33

And since when was life fair?!! The minute we start thinking life should always be fair is the minute we start setting ourselves up for a lot of disappointment!

Original poster
Jkoakham · 26/07/2018 12:35

But why is it fair to spring it on her at the end of her life and cause distress?

At least people growing up now know what will happen and can plan

OP posts:
Imchlibob · 26/07/2018 12:38

That isn't how NI works. What the money she paid with her stamp was for the older generation to her to receive a pension and basic benefits. The first generation to receive a state pension never made any contributions - there's no pot of money, all money in gets spent on immediate needs. Her contributions entitled her to the benefits she would have received if she qualified, and a pension. How many years pension has she had?

NI has never covered geriatric care, especially not for the wealthy who have assets they can live from.

MarshaBradyo · 26/07/2018 12:38

She was told cradle to grave

It’s not affordable, it’s tough but things change

gamerchick · 26/07/2018 12:40

It hasn't been sprung on her, just nobody's bothered to find out with a few assumptions thrown around. You could have found all this out yourself well in advance. I never thought that medical treatment and care in old age was the same thing.

buckingfrolicks · 26/07/2018 12:42

OP she won't have even paid for her education never mind yours, and what about decades of police, fire, pavements, bin collection, parks and playgrounds, street lighting, dentists, GPs ... don't you realise what we get for our taxes?

elephantfan · 26/07/2018 12:43

She isn't paying for health care.
She is paying for a place to live where she can have food, personal and social care. The health care component is funded, the rest is not.
I say this as someone who has supported parents and PIL through dementia units and care homes at a self funding cost of £900 per week each. All their savings and the value of their homes was used up.
Thankfully they all died before the money ran out - just.
The health care bit was state funded at about £125 per month.
The state paid 500 per week for the non- contributors so the self funders subsidise the state funded to the tune of around £200 per week.

ThePants999 · 26/07/2018 12:46

But what she's receiving isn't healthcare...

RedneckStumpy · 26/07/2018 12:47

I wish that NI had an option to opt out. I would much rather invest that money myself

Honflyr · 26/07/2018 12:48

Well why not?

I worked hard for what I have, why can't your children

Maybe cos they are in low paying jobs and very poor themselves ? So if I could help them with inheritence I would

IrmaFayLear · 26/07/2018 12:48

And what was promised was cradle to grave healthcare . You eat in a care home just as you would do at home.

Even if a person has no assets (eg house) they will forfeit their state pension when they go into a care home.

I am happy that most councils now are stampeding through trusts etc made in order to avoid care fees. So putting your house in trust for grandchildren and then making out you haven't a bean is not going to work. My council say they will go back "decades" in order to track down large financial gifts to family members, as well.

Honflyr · 26/07/2018 12:50

Then give them, to the best of their abilities, the tools to create their own savings. Why is it up to someone else to protect their inheritance via higher taxes?

I already said what I would do. Kill myself before I need that much care. Kill myself while I'm still me.

WowLookAtYou · 26/07/2018 12:52

She bought a house to live in, presumably that met her needs at the time. Now that house no longer meets them, and she needs a different type of home. So, she needs to do what we all do in similar circumstances (e.g. when we move from a flat to a house when having children), sell up and pay for something else that suits, in this case a care home.