Heartbroken that I'm being forced to sell mum's house, she worked hard for it and paid her national insurance

[Jkoakham]

And now her savings are running out I will need to sell her house to carry on funding it.

It all seems to very unfair, her house was supposed to be passed to me but instead it's affectively passed to government and private companies.

I thought the dimentia tax had been can cancelled?

Not so sure. It’s surprising how many people who oppose inheritance tax have no idea people need to pay for care costs. I’ve surprised a few people with this information. I’m early thirties so most people have living parents and view inheritance tax as a death tax. It often hasn’t occurred to them they may lose their inheritance to pay for a parents care costs anyway. I work in the field so think and know more about elderly care. We really need an open and honest debate about this as a society. I don’t think anyone loves the status quo and taxing the working population more while allowing people to inherit their parents wealth will only worsen social inequalities. Owning a property means you have paid a mortgage but a great deal of property wealth is unearned capital gains. Someone buying the same small house in Burnley in the eighties will be leaving an inheritance many times smaller than someone who bought London in the eighties. If people pass on all the unearned wealth tied up in property over the next twenty years as the boomers die it will end in massive social inequalities which are good for no one.

The Pil have gone through all their savings and the sale of their house in care home fees. And they were not/are not in a particularly nice home. Mil had a type of dementia that made her loud, aggressive and doubly incontinent. “Naice” care homes would not admit her and her only “choice” was the rock-bottom one.

I think that all care should be free BUT it should be basic. Good quality, decent care, but dormitory-style and not in private care homes. Then if people (or their relatives) want fancier surroundings, they can pay. But it is unfair to have self-funders in the same accommodation as those not paying, especially as they are paying more than the council pays for people.

Honestly it is not the luxury of the home that matters, but the staff. And decent staff anywhere always costs.

My grandparents both had long careers in factory jobs, had a council house which was my father's childhood home and were moved to a little flat when old which they had no problem with, as there were only 2 of them. When they needed care, they were put where there were spaces, no choice at all and rooms shared with strangers. So that might cheer up some of you who are under the impression that the shirkers get the same level of care. Don't worry guys, they don't - your inheritance isn't going down the drain for nothing.

You are right, crunchymint the staff at the LA home were extremely hardworking and kind.

We have been through this situation twice, first with my grandmother, who had Alzheimers and now with my FIL, who has Lewy Bodies. Both of them needed 24/7 specialist care and there simply were not two people working in our families who could give up their jobs to care full time, as we are still paying off mortgages. Even if we could have juggled care between us, none of us have any specialist nursing training, which they needed. My FIL is at the end stage, can recognise no one, has to be fed, and has no control over his body. My Grandmother lived for five years in a specialist home, my FIL is going on for his third year. Both these places have cost around £1000 a month, and in my Granny's case, we had to pay for extras, like having her washed by a nurse when she got very bad. That cost us an extra £60 per week. I am bloody grateful they had assets that could cover their care, as we couldn't have coped as a family and as others have pointed out, shitty care is not an option anyone in their right minds would choose. We simply could not have afforded the standard of care they have out of our incomes. I do see your point, OP, I look around my own home and hate the thought of it having to be sold to pay for my care and for my future grandchildren not to be able to enjoy it. But if the alternative is ending my life in a place that resembles hell without the matches, I would want my kids to sell the house (if I hadn't made it to Dignitas before things got bad). The way I see it, my assets prevent me becoming a burden to them that they cannot afford.

"So you think someone else should fund your inheritance?"
"Wow, so you should have your inheritance protected, and we should fund her care??"
"Goodness me. I can see the pound signs from here"
"Why dont you buy the house if it's that important to you? Being stroppy about it won't get you anywhere"

God you're a miserable bunch on here. I watch these threads from time to time and am constantly amazed at the amount of self-righteous, nasty bossiness that comes across in the posts. Would you actually talk to people like this in real life??

Sorry to hear you're going through an awful time OP.

I agree Hottoddy1.

Just being envious, but a friend of mi e has just inherited £1.5m as her dm died of a heart attack and no care was needed. Her dm was not a wealthy person, but happened to have bought in a (recently) desirable part of London in the 1960s. This is replicated among several of my peers.

Otoh dh will inherit nothing due to care home fees. And, in any case, his dp lived in a cheap area where house prices have not ballooned.

It does seem horribly unfair that our dcs will be living in a world where some will be enjoying g a massive grandparental bonanza and others will be getting nada.

Good quality, decent care, but dormitory-style and not in private care homes

Undignified and complete lack of privacy aside...

Dormitory-style if you had the sort of people with dementia or cardiovascular cognitive issues, wandering around in the small hours, talking aloud, trying to get into bed with others, getting aggressive or confused? No. Nobody would sleep - people would deteriorate rapidly. Even loud snorers could be disruptive but anybody more complex?

Cismyarse your parents may find that their trust isn't worth the paper it is written on when it comes to assets for care home fees.

Also, diabetics and obese get free care so get feeding her up OP.

No they don't.

Cameron promised to legislate for people not having to pay more than £75,000 to care fees. However, it then got shelved. May than suggested in the last general election, people would have to pay all their care fees but could keep the last £100,000 dubbed the dementia tax.

It does seem unfair that those who are unlucky enough to get an illness like dementia that can need years of care will lose most of their estate.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned how the Labour Party wrote a report around 2010 suggesting a National Care Fund which would be funded by a universal tax on a person’s estate after death, for example about 10% of the estate. In this way everyone would know they could get care if in their last years they were unfortunate to get an illness like dementia that required a lot of care in their last few years of life. However, they would not lose all their estate, bar the last approx £20,000 as happens now.

It would be the same principle as how we fund NHS, everybody pays in, so everybody is covered if they get ill and nobody is faced with bankrupt inducing healthcare bills, but with the knowledge not everyone will use it as much.

What do people think of this idea?

In the 60s a third of people were in social housing. Many in private rent. Getting a mortgage for a house was very very difficult. You needed to have been with the bank for a number of years, have a respectable job that they thought you would be in long term, have references from your employer and personal references. It was not easy to buy then.

crunchymint .... I don't get what you're comment in conjunction with my post means? I'm not deliberately being obtuse. I would think that your points are obvious and valid. As are mine.

The system is unfair. You just have to look at what the late Duke of Westminster managed to legally, tho' not morally wriggle out of paying. It began at 2 1/2 billion in inheritance tax avoided. What's wrong is each person affected by this terribly stacked system is out there looking for some justifiable scapegoat. We're victims too. But there's no point looking for blame with those not that far removed financially from each of us.

Yy to having a sensible debate about legal suicide. My mum died after 8yrs struggling against early onset dementia. My m-il died painfully of cancer in her mid 60's. I nursed them both. I come from a dirt poor family in a sink estate in Edinburgh. I know you don't know my circumstances, how could you?

diabetics and obese people have to pay for their care home fees like everyone else.

Wait a minute, it sounds like I was jealous of my friend’s mum having a heart attack

What I meant was that it is inevitable that our parents will die, and it is better for the elderly person and their family if they die suddenly at home. Fil has been in a home for five years. Wearing a big nappy, being spoon fed and not knowing his own sons. So undignified for him.

Someone mentioned things would have to get pretty bad before you would consider suicide. My grandmother knew she was losing herself to Alzheimer's and when we put her in a home, it was the last straw for her. she was terrified of what was coming and begged us to kill her every time we visited. She only stopped as the Alzheimer's became worse and she began to forget who we were. She wasn't thinking of her house, only about how she was going to end her life. It was awful. My FIL, thankfully, slipped belligerently into Lewy Bodies without much awareness of what is happening to him. After watching the pair of them go through this, I am all for assisted suicide. I want a good death. Finances have nothing to do with it.

Re care homes, it's not always a case of Nice Home A if you're paying, and Crap Home B if the council is.

My mother was in her dementia-only care home for very nearly 8 years. She was self funded, but many (maybe 50%) of the residents were not.

It was an excellent home, not luxurious as such, but cosy and homely and purpose built for dementia, and whether self or council funded, all residents had exactly the same type of ensuite room and enjoyed the same care and facilities.

As a frequent visitor for so many years, I could see that there was no difference in the care. Of course the self-funders paid significantly more than the council rate, but in the circs and given the care she received until the end, we had no quarrel with that.

MarshaBradyo

Things would have to be pretty bad to choose suicide

You don’t get to see the people you love anymore and would they choose it for you for a house? I doubt it

I think some people would choose to die in their own homes before they had to go into care. I think I would be one of them, but obviously I have no idea what I’d do, faced with the reality. If dignitas was still a pretty easy flight away and I am able to access it, I think I would definitely consider it. I hope my dcs aren’t too reliant on inheriting from me though. I’m not raising them to expect money to just fall in their lap. I would like to leave as much as I can and I would hugely resent paying a lot of money (and it’s ludicrous amounts these days) to live in a care home, where I think I’d probably be very unhappy.

All but one of my grandparents and my mum died well before they needed care. The grandparent who died most recently had to go into care though. She was there for just a few months before she died and her house did not need to be sold.

Krustykittens You're very right. My mother went to a Care home for her last three weeks (which we paid for privately) but for her final three months she begged Drs to end let life legally as she's seen the godawful state my Dad is in and she has the same condition. Eventually she refused to eat anything at all. That hastened her end. It was devastating but she was terrified of what was happening to her. Poor Dad carries on, but if he had a way, I know he'd take it. He is completely immobile, with necrosis, and unable to communicate. That's dementia

If you are in Scotland you do get free health care in a nursing home. It's the hotel costs you're paying for.

Irma do you feel as bad for the children of alcoholics and drug abusers growing up in gang-ridden estates in deprived areas? Or the children of disabled and mentally-ill people who find it difficult to earn a living? All I am seeing in many of these posts is people who are quick to shout 'not fair!' when they are the ones in a difficult situation. They spare no thought for all the other situations where they are the ones 'winning' in the lottery of life when others have drawn the short straw.

Krustykittens...I agree. I just want a sensible death. To hang with protecting what piddling amount will be left for my children. I faced death recently after a serious health scare. What freaked me out was the fear on my loved ones faces, not future health matters. We need to be allowed to have a living will set in place with POA, all legally validated by an independent body. Not open to abuse

charleston Yes exactly.
Also good health and lack of disability is a bit of a lottery at any age.

YANBU OP - same situation here. I cared for mum as long as I could - it nearly bankrupted me. Now she has gone into care and we have to sell her house. What was the point of all that scrimping and saving when we were kids so Mum and Dad could own their own home..

If you want to kill yourself, kill yourself. Don't drag anyone else into your mess.