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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Heartbroken that I'm being forced to sell mum's house, she worked hard for it and paid her national insurance

999 replies

Jkoakham · 25/07/2018 09:28

And now her savings are running out I will need to sell her house to carry on funding it.

It all seems to very unfair, her house was supposed to be passed to me but instead it's affectively passed to government and private companies.

I thought the dimentia tax had been can cancelled?

OP posts:
GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 25/07/2018 15:35

Would just add re suicide, I dare say we'd all like to think we'd take that way out of dementia, but the trouble is, by the time it's past the very early stages, even if we had a stash of pills hidden away, we'd very likely forget we'd got them, and even that we'd planned to do such a thing at all. Very often people can't remember that they've got dementia, for the simple reason that they can't remember that they can't remember anything.

Even when she could no longer even make herself a cup of tea, my mother still thought there was nothing wrong with her. And I still remember the moment when it dawned on me that it was dementia and not just old-age forgetfulness - as I'd been trying to tell myself, having gone through dementia already with FiL and dreading it all over again.

My mother had always been very clued up about finances, , so when she phoned First Direct about something, and could not remember, literally the instant she'd put the phone down, what theyhad said, that was when the ghastly penny dropped.
And she was still in the very early stages then.

As for a 'kinder' death, e.g.a heart attack at home, it would certainly have been far kinder for my poor mother, than the pitiful wreck she finally became - doubly incontinent, not knowing any of her family, unable to hold any sort of conversation, zero dignity.
IMO it's a fate far worse than death.

Charley50 · 25/07/2018 15:35

Im all for legalising assisted dying; I don't want to go through a long drawn out death.
As the ageing population grows, maybe, in the future, incentives to choose assisted dying at a certain age will be introduced - money, or a once in a lifetime luxury cruise that ends up with the passengers sailing into the sunset of their lives.

However I think it's easy for me now to say I'd go for assisted suicide for myself, but would I when it came down to it?

ChristyMoore · 25/07/2018 15:43

If you want to kill yourself, kill yourself. Don't drag anyone else into your mess.

Was that to me? I’m not really sure what you mean by “drag anyone else into your mess”. Could you explain please?

IrmaFayLear · 25/07/2018 15:44

I agree that if a person has dementia, it’s too late for an “exit plan” as my aunt called it. They have lost capacity.

Mil hotly denied anything was wrong with her. When bil called in the GP to give her an assessment she absolutely raged and said her family had betrayed her. And fil too kept up the charade. He refused to accept the dementia diagnosis and kept talking about when mil “got better” they would be back to normal Sad

ChristyMoore · 25/07/2018 15:47

Charley

I’m with you.

I hope I will stills have the capacity to do that though, if it ever becomes available and I want to take that step. The late Terry P campaigned for it after his diagnosis I think. Can definitely see why.

Charley50 · 25/07/2018 15:49

@crunchymint - "Most people still believe in God. And people tend to get more religious as they get older.
I am not talking about people who go to church. The older people I know do not go to church, but do believe in God and think there is something afterwards."

Do people really believe in an afterlife these days? Even religious people? Isn't that just a manifestation of the fear of dying, or trying to rationalise loved ones deaths as a way of comforting themselves?

grannycake · 25/07/2018 15:50

My MIL went into a care home just after Christmas. She lives 60 miles from my DH and myself. We both work FT. He has stayed at her house 5 nights out of 7 for the past three years. She does not have dementia but multiple health and mobility issues. She fell regularly and despite alarms and 4 care visits daily she could no longer cope independently.

She resisted residential care even though she was confined to a chair in one room for most of the day. She wanted to leave her house. All we wanted was for her to be safe and not spend every day waiting to hear of another admission to hospital. We are currently cleaning and then valuing the house in order that she can find her care once her savings run out.

She will be 90 in January and is getting frailer but the will to live is strong and with 24 hour care and some company she looks much better and my DH can relax in knowing that if anything happens there are people there. Her home is excellent and in our area the cost is £2600 a month. Pensions and DLA cover 1900 and savings make up the shortfall. I am investigating attendance allowance, council tax rebates (while waiting for house to sell)

charlestonchaplin · 25/07/2018 16:04

A number of people have mentioned assisted suicide. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. Killing someone is a messy business. It isn't right to involve others in suicide plans. There may be unforeseen emotional difficulties that result from involvement in assisted suicide, even where people have seemed to be in favour of helping. (If pain is an issue relatives should lobby doctors for as much pain relief as necessary to relieve the pain, which may also have the side-effect of hastening death). I think people should kill themselves early while they still have the means to do the necessary, or not at all.

BigSandyBalls2015 · 25/07/2018 16:08

My mums care home fees were £1K a week!! Not the top end either, upper middle.

RoadToRivendell · 25/07/2018 16:14

While I do agree that old age care can and should be funded privately, your mother didn't really have this information to hand as a decision maker along the way, so it's a bit shite. We should avoid these types of lottery-like outcomes wherever possible.

Somewhereovertheroad · 25/07/2018 16:21

I will ensure I have fuck all in assets by the time I'm around 70 then.

^^ This exactly. What incentive is there to manage your money and plan for old age.

@Jkoakham I think you have got a really hard time on this thread.

It's really awful that you're Mum has this awful illness. It's really awful that you have to sell her property. BrewCakeThanks

ScrubTheDecks · 25/07/2018 16:27

There are two aspects to residential care - the residence and the care.

I think it is reasonable that the residential bit gets paid for by the resident, as if they weren't in the home, they would be in their own home, paying council tax, bills, food etc. They may well be getting housing benefit, though.

But the care? I think that should be paid for by the state.

Yoksha · 25/07/2018 16:28

RoadToRivendell....that is spot on. Those in charge seem to sneak things in under the radar whilst upholding a facade of SNAFU.

It's beneficial to look outside the box. Plan for the worst, hope for the best type of thing. What a way to live.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2018 16:29

Why do you need an "incentive" to save and pay for yourself ?
What an entitled bunch some - not all - homeowners are

BishopBrennansArse · 25/07/2018 16:30

By the way one thing I don't like is the assumption that those who aren't homeowners or don't have savings are somehow feckless.

I'm disabled. I have three disabled children. Funnily enough it's been found that my auto immune disability can be brought on by extreme stress. I'm not at all surprised being as I've been fighting for their health care and education for over 10 years, it's been made unnecessarily stressful by the authorities.

I was a homeowner once and paid higher tax. But because of the above situation now live in social housing and don't have savings. So by your analysis I wouldn't be entitled to care in my old age because I'm feckless?

jasjas1973 · 25/07/2018 16:31

Why should elderly nursing care be funded privately? if you got a degenerative brain disease or were involved in a serious accident in your 30s or 40s i guess you d not be happy to sell your house? cash in your pension? a house or pension you ve worked for, paid taxes on your income, there is no difference.

What has happened is that the state closed down the Geriatric wards of yesteryear, pocketed the funds to lower taxes and passed the cost to the individual and in many cases, giving us a shocking standard of private care at a premium cost!!!
Care should be funded and provided by the state, through increased taxes.

The current system allows the feckless to receive the same care as the frugal.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2018 16:31

Also, what a trusting faith in "government" to maintain basic standards, like own room
In 30 years time, it may be dormitories, Victorian poor-houses, for those who can't pay towards their care.

BishopBrennansArse · 25/07/2018 16:32

Jajas immediately illustrating my point nicely.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2018 16:34

The problem is, that those who want to preserve their inheritances usually won't vote for large tax increases
and why should those with no assets vote to pay higher taxes for no advantage to themselves

Yoksha · 25/07/2018 16:37

BigChoc... Coming back full circle to how I watched all my grandparents end their lives in geriatric wards in the 60's/70's. Pish puree put down to my grandad one night. He forked it around in disgust and died 2 days later. Nothings really changed.

Honflyr · 25/07/2018 16:41

Also can you imagine the guilt of your kids if you chose suicide so they could buy a house?

It's not just due to that, it's also because I don't want randomers caring for me and fading into some shadow of who I was. I don't want my family watching me deteriorate before their eyes - surely the pain of watching someone go through that degenerative process and perhaps not even recognise you anymore, is worse than them committing suicide?

Honflyr · 25/07/2018 16:42

I'd rather my grandmother died still knowing who her family was, feeling safe and secure with all her fond memories, than dying of life's will in a worse state.

LalaLeona · 25/07/2018 16:44

Haven't read the full thread but the first couple of pages are the sort of comments I'd expect to see in the daily mail. Have noticed this alot lately..aibu turning into the daily mail in terms of answers lacking any empathy, and very right wing. Makes for grim reading.

hatgirl · 25/07/2018 16:56

Jasjas all adults over the age of 18 who have care needs are financially assessed in exactly the same way as older people with dementia. What leads you to think they are not?

If you got a degenerative brain disease in your 30s/40s and needed residential care you would be assessed by exactly the same financial criteria as someone in their 90s with Alzheimer's disease.

Car accidents are slightly different as often the insurance payouts include ongoing care costs. But if the person approached the local authority for an assessment then they would be financially assessed using the same criteria as anyone else.

The only disease that the state pays for all care costs without question is vCJD.

ElementalHalfLife · 25/07/2018 16:57

I had this discussion recently with my mum, she was bitching about having to cash in some of her retirement bonds in order to supplement her full state pension. She said she shouldn't have bothered saving for her retirement because she'd get more money from the benefits system if she didn't have savings. I pointed out how she really wouldn't. She'd get her pension and have to live on it and the point of retirement savings surely was to spend them during retirement?

What was she going to do with the money otherwise? She gave me the whole "well, I want to leave some to you and my grandkids." I told her leave enough to cover your funeral costs and we're good.

Then she started going on about her house and how "they" would take it if she had to go into residential care - she doesn't see why she should have to pay for her end of life care even though she's in a very good position to do so. I don't see why anyone else should have to pay for it. Why is end of life any different to any other part of adult life? We all have to pay our way from becoming adults. And yes I'm aware that's my inheritance but I would rather not have it at all if it means my mother doing without what she needs now or someone else having to fund it when she has the means to support herself.

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