To not help family more financially

[user1471558723]

I have a nephew and niece, they are both at university. They visit me regularly and I enjoy seeing them. I always pay their train fare and provide treats when they are with me. I don't invite them, I don't need to as they always invite themselves over. Sometimes it's a bit inconvenient, but I reason that it's nice that they still want to spend time with me.
I have started to notice that when they visit there is always a catalogue of woes about their financial situation. I'm starting to feel manipulated into giving more money than I want to, to them.
I feel they think the are entitled to help with their cars, insurance etc. I don't really think that it's up to an aunty to support them in this way. I'm getting a bit anxious that I seem to have acquired two extra dependants just when I am thinking of slowing down a bit at work and enjoying spending some money on myself. At long last all my own children are self supporting and I don't have to worry about them. Now my niece and nephew are starting to make me feel like I should be helping them out. Am I being unreasonable to be a bit fed up and not to want to see quite so much of them?

Yes you do need a strategy otherwise you’ll be giving the bf handouts too. 😱

A car at university is a luxury not a necessity, if they can't afford it they'll either have to lose it or get part time employment to fund it themselves.

I know you feel rotten, but they're adults now and by bailing them out financially you wouldn't be helping in the long term when they need to become self supporting. Tough love I'm afraid!

Also, can your sister not work full time rather than part time? So you don't have to help her out as much too. You should be enjoying your money not worrying about dishing it out willy nilly!

YANBU

I think your friend is right and since your niece did this in front of her then I can see why she spoke to you about it.

The best way to help them not be like their Mom is to stop propping them up now. They have support from their grandparents as you stated and can get a part time job like loads of others do if they need more money to do fun stuff.

I can't help but think that they aren't being honest about what they need money for too or if they are it's because they spent the money for bills on nights out, clothes, alcohol etc.

Stop giving your sister money, if she is that hard up she should go fulltime. Do not give any more money to your nephew & niece. If they cannot afford to buy and run a car (and lots of uni students can't) then they go without. I wonder how you justify giving your money to your sister and her children when you have children of your own.

Your nephew and niece do not need cars while at university. Neither of my DC had them and they coped perfectly well. My DC also lived in pretty grotty student accommodation. Somebody said on another thread the other day "Givers need to set boundaries because takers rarely do", which is a useful motto to bear in mind. Your Nephew and niece, and your sister, are takers, and they are taking the proverbial. I have a nephew whom I love dearly. His mum died many years ago and his dad, with whom he has little contact, lives abroad. He's an adult with a decent job, but has on a couple of occasions asked for a loan of a couple of thousand. I have loaned him the money gladly and he has been so grateful, and more importantly he has paid it back quickly. I don't feel at all guilty for not just letting him keep it.

There are two really bad things that are happening as a result of this. One is that they are becoming dependent on other adults and feeling entitled to support when they are really not entitled to it. The other is that the pleasure of giving them something has gone now, for you. If they had never asked for a thing it might have been really nice (if you could've afforded it) to have given them the odd special treat. Now that they are expecting it, all of that has changed.

When I was at uni we got a grant! So no real need for hand outs from aunties. I suppose my parents did help out with the odd tenner here and there.
I got a good degree from a good university paid for by the government. It enabled me to do very rewarding work that was well paid. My generation were very fortunate. I'm conscious of that and have always tried to put a lot back.
I want the best for my niece and nephew and I don't want to either spoil them or be responsible for them.
Please excuse the typos, my iPad has decided to only operate in tiny writing and my aging eyes are struggling to read what I type.

my neice was angling towards me getting her a new car

That is really cheeky. Suggest she gets a bicycle/bus if she can't afford to run her own car.

You sound like a nice Aunty, you are already paying for them to visit you (when it's their choice, you don't need to keep doing this) and stop bailing out their Mum. It is the result of learned behaviour of 'Oh, Aunty will cough up, she's always got cash for Mum.'

So no, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all.

I don't see how anyone angles for a car without coming right out and asking for one? What did they actually say?

Honestly, if she hasn't come right out and asked for it, you can feel free to ignore it. She's done nothing wrong by sharing her financial woes with her aunt and hasn't been cheeky enough to actually say "Aunty can you buy me a new car"

I would take a different tack. I would buy a couple of copies of something like "The Idiot's Guide to Personal Finance" and when they come over say you've realised from their conversations that they are feeling overwhelmed about their money situation. Tell them you want to give them a financial education and do it.

You are doing them no favors encouraging them to be financially dependent. It seems like they are learning the wrong message and they believe some one else will/should rescue them financially. Do them a huge service by teaching them how to handle money and what to expect for the future, Don't ignore the elephant in the room or they could run up massive debt as well as their student loans.

This sounds like learned behaviour from their mother. You will be doing them no favours giving in to it, and it will never end.

I suggest Four Yorkshiremen mode. For every tale of woe and deprivation parry with one of your own, but more so.

“Train fares are so expensive, Aunty”
“Trains, you travel on trains? When I was young we were too poor for trains, we used to have to run alongside the track making engine noises”

If they have cars why do they need you to pay train fares?!

I do feel sorry for people at uni now with the fees they pay though. I wouldn't have gone to uni if I had those costs. But that's hardly your fault and they aren't your responsibility.

Though I moan to family members about money things all the time, need x, y, and z and can only afford x and y. No way am I hinting for them to give me money. I just like having a good moan sometimes! It really seems unlikely you niece would be trying to get you to buy her a new car - that seems ridiculous.

If they are just sounding off, then just sympathise... what was it she said that made you/you friend think it was hinting?

If they are seriously asking, just deflect it with something, "money worries? Same here - I'm struggling to keep up with my pension payments/house refurb savings/cost of living/piano lessons" etc.

I do think lots of young people who haven't become independent yet do seem to see their parents (or generous aunts!) as endless sources of money/food/time etc without really realising the impact it has on their life. I think it's great that they're close to you but that doesn't mean they can expect financial support! timeisnotaline's phrase is great!

YANBU. Carry on as you did this weekend. Make sympathetic noises but don't hand over any cash. And don't feel bad about it for a second. Honestly, it's in their best interests for you to do this. They need to learn to be independent and not end up like their Mum.

I can tell from your posts that if there was ever any real hardship you'd be there for your family in a heartbeat. That's all that matters.

Please be careful what you read into them saying.

And there is a reason for never talking about money!

I had an uncle who came to visit me just after I had a pay-rise, paid off a loan, re-mortgaged and re-sorted some of my finances. My re-jig gave me a little bit more disposable income. Not much - but enough to allow me to finally think about starting some of the DIY I wanted to do.

Uncle's visit was to meet my fiance for the first time who had just moved in.

I made various comments during my uncle's stay about the fact it was wonderful I could now afford to think about doing x y z. Or apologies for the slightly tatty bathroom, but up until now I had not been able to afford to do anything about it. Didn't even occur to me that he didn't know I had rejigged mortgage etc etc - it was all just passing comments by me.

My uncle went away thinking that I was "marrying for money" and that the only reason I was with my fiance (now been my DH for nearly 20 years) was for his salary. That I could now afford all this stuff because of my fiance. A HUGE row ensued between my DM and her brother. Between my fiance and uncle. etc etc

Amusingly - if you compared my fiance's and my finances at the time it would have been the other way round. DH then earned a higher salary but had shockingly bad debts which I got under control as a condition of marrying him and was more likely to have been marrying me for my money!

As an follow up to my tale, my uncle was uninvited to the wedding. None of us has spoke to him since (not because of his unfounded accusations - and when you see some of the context you can kind of see why he may have had the the odd thought) but because of how he behaved as part of the whole argument afterwards.

Yes, they could use coaches, unless they are the sort of people who get unbearably travel sick on them even when they don't read.

I suggest Four Yorkshiremen mode
Yes. And show them episodes of The Young Ones from when student digs usually looked like student digs.

There must be lots of personal finance guides out there for young people now. A book or two would be the thing to get them started but there are blogs and I'd guess Instagrammers around, and movements like Early Retirement Extreme which are not unrelated to minimlism.

Why aren't they working? There is no reason you can't do a degree and get a part time job at the same time. I worked 2 evenings and two full days and still managed a first. If they complain about lack of funds, you can help them by offering to help update their CV, or to look for little part time jobs for them locally that they can apply for. Money doesn't fall in laps, that's the way of the world. Best they learn it now.

I am a grandparent, and my eldest DG happily accepts whatever i do for him and always asks for more. I am a bit fed up as he doesn't seem to appreciate what I do, what I buy. It;s my own fault in some ways as I have raised his expectations. I've decided to do less, so what I do is more special. I think your relatives are feeling a bit entitled and have forgotten that you do what you do because you are lovely, not because they are entitled to anything. Personally, I'd be less generous, and if that's what you decide I think you should have a very clear conscience. IN other words, YANBU

You are aware they will be receiving a maintenance loan from Student Finance, and also, given their mother's situation, probably a bursary? Don't feel too sorry for today's students. Until very recently I worked in a university and used to take my own drinks with me. It always amused/bemused me to see the queues of students at the Starbucks concessions on campus, happy to pay £3+ for their drinks. They need to learn how to budget and how to go without non-essentials or they will forever be living beyond their means.

Are you a multi million pound lottery winner? If so YAB a little U. If I had millions I would want to spread my wealth around.

If not, YANBU!

Honestly, being a student and living away generally means you CAN'T afford a car. I have put two through university and it is a luxury that they neither need or can afford.

It always amused/bemused me to see the queues of students at the Starbucks concessions on campus, happy to pay £3+ for their drinks.

I taught in a college and we used to say the same. We couldn't afford to drink from Starbucks but the students could.

OP, you might have to get a bit tough. Tell them you're not in the next few times they ask to meet you. If they ask if you're okay, you could just say that you've noticed they're hinting for money and you really don't like it as you have your own family to take care of.

Why aren't they working? There is no reason you can't do a degree and get a part time job at the same time.

This isn't necessarily the case. Some universities say you absolutely cannot work. My head of course said he strongly recommended not working while we were studying. I got a job throughout my first year but there was simply too much uni work to even contemplate working after that. On the course I teach on now I see the hours the students are supposed to put in and no way could you fit in part time work.

However they are off uni for 4/5 months over summer so ideally should be working as much as they can during this time.

Yes, that's what I was told by lecturers too; that I wouldn't have time to work. They also told me to stop drinking (with them!). I ignored on both of those points.