To think a lot of people are jealous of teachers' holidays but...

[Pengggwn]

...too bitter about it to admit that they wouldn't be teachers themselves?

Just that really.

I have seen so many comments and threads aimed at dissecting teachers' pay and conditions to a forensic level, people complaining that teachers are available over the summer to answer their queries, people arguing that teachers should be working anyway or claim to be working even when they're not (I'm not, at least not for the next month).

And yet, we are in the middle of a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. We can't recruit and keep well-qualified teachers.

Where are all the volunteers??

BitOutOfPractice

Being suited to a profession and being willing to do it are two totally different things. I would be a footballer if I had the skills. They earn a fortune - sounds great. Unfortunately I would be more qualified to be the ball. I am not talking about people who lack the skills. I am talking about people who have the skills to be teachers, moan constantly about teachers, but wouldn't do the job themselves because, when it comes down to it, they think teachers are underpaid and/or overworked, but they won't admit it because they are so bitter about our 'ridiculous' holidays.

I can see what a PP meant about sometimes comment from teachers as if they are they only ones working evenings in a stressful job rub people up the wrong way.
I remember back in my online dating days a profile I quite liked until I read that because he was a teacher he therefore wasn’t really available other than school holidays. That REALLY rubbed me up the wrong way because it was the assumption that people like me could just be available early evening when a teacher couldn’t. My contract is 9-5 but I rarely left before 6.30-7, and no not paid for overtime that’s just what a lot of jobs are like. What about being a teacher means you can’t meet for a drink at say 7 or 8pm on a weekday or meet up on a weekend? I don’t understand.

But yes on balance I prefer to have less holidays, probably a similar amount of stress (actually I don’t find my job that stressful now because I’ve been doing it for a long time, but I was frequently in tears during my first few years) for more money. So I chose not to be a teacher.

I do think a lot of teachers (not all) do a fantastic job.

What about being a teacher means you can’t meet for a drink at say 7 or 8pm on a weekday or meet up on a weekend? I don’t understand.

What's not to understand? He clearly communicated that he can't because he is working. Are you suggesting he's lying?

I would love to be a geography teacher but I can't sustain my current lifestyle on a teacher's salary unfortunately.

Maybe one day!

zzzzz

Because - as I think I am saying quite clearly - I think it is more prevalant for teachers than it is for many other people. And because I don't believe it is 'part of life' and think people should stop doing it and think before they speak.

zzzzz

So show me the hundreds of threads filled with people tearing shreds out of lifeguards?

What's not to understand? He clearly communicated that he can't because he is working. Are you suggesting he's lying?

Not lying but probably making assumptions about other people’s jobs that are incorrect. As people have said, for some their may be a bit of a bubble. No one I know in a professional job works a straight 9-5 other than those with children and childcare responsibilities who have had to negotiate working fewer hours (I now fall into this category, but prior to children I would have considered 50-60 hours a week a standard working week). Anyway, if he was genuinely only available holidays (assuming that other than teaching there is no spare hour in the day) then he just needs to meet another teacher doesn’t he?

I'm not jealous as I don't work myself, so every day is a holiday.

I am a qualified teacher though, lasted a couple of years.
wouldn't go back as the terms and conditions were appalling.
I take my hat off to teachers and give them my full respect.
They work very hard, are constantly monitored/ observed, complained about from parents, and all the rest.

I think you are terrific if you are still in the profession these days, it's a calling that a person feels they must do. Nobody else would do it for other reasons, as it wouldn't be worth their while.

to all the teachers on here, have a lovely break, you deserve it.

Most people I know seem to understand teaching is not an easy ride! I'm not a teacher but I get it!

wheezing

But I am really confused. The post just said he couldn't meet up at that time. What 'assumptions' am I missing? And he can post online saying what he wants - who the hell are you to say 'he just needs to meet another teacher'?

Seriously you have confused me. What exactly is wrong with a person writing an OLD advert that says when they are free to meet up?

At least teachers actually have those holidays. University staff do not all have the whole summer off. Dh has been at his university for years so get the maximum of 35 days a year leave. Generous by many standards but it spread across the year. Plenty of academics take 2-3 weeks in August as leave but certainly not the whole summer. DH often loses some of his leave as he can't take it all as there is so little space in the academic calendar.

The summer work involves
marking and exam committees, attending summer open days and graduation. Setting and marking resits and resit exam committees, research bids, papers. Conference attending, preparing /updating lectures and student materials, for the new year. Liaising with admin staff (who have a max of 25 days of leave a year) on timetables for the new year, and induction preparations for new students. Dealing with clearing applications in mid August is a big one for DH.

That is just off the top of my head, I am not an academic so I am sure there is more. Yes it is less work than in semester time but by no means is it 'free time'

I think university teaching staff have it worse than teachers in terms of public opinion as to how 'easy their job is'

I am by no means saying that teachers and university teaching staff have harder jobs than others, they definitely dont - ,just that everyone and his dog seems to have an opinion about them both, based on very little knowledge of what the job actually entails.

Everyone thinks they know what the job is as most people have some contact with teachers and also a lot have contact with university staff, whereas in reality they only see maybe 30-40 percent of what the full job entails.

With other jobs people either place more value on them ( doctors etc) or know less about the jobs so make fewer assumptions.

As for teachers moaning too much. There is a teaching crisis. They are leaving in droves. Maybe we should believe than when they tell us how stressful it is? Surely they can't ALL be moaning Minnies

zzzzz

I don't think it needs explanation.

I am talking about people who have the skills to be teachers, moan constantly about teachers, but wouldn't do the job themselves because, when it comes down to it, they think teachers are underpaid and/or overworked, but they won't admit it because they are so bitter about our 'ridiculous' holidays

Or they just don’t want to be a teacher? Or is it only a valid choice if you choose to go into teaching?

On paper I have the skills to go into teaching. It just doesn’t interest me. Not because I think teachers are underpaid/overworked but because I’m doing what I want to do!

For me teachers aren’t a special breed. There’ll be those that are good and those that aren’t.

Those that aren’t happy with their working conditions and those that just bloody moan all the time.

I am a teacher. Love my job and wouldn’t want to do anything else. However, it is hard work that takes up a great deal of my time. I do work some of the holidays to be ready for the next term. The pay is pretty rubbish in comparison to equivalent professional roles. Staff retainment is a major issue. Teaching is not unique in any of that.

There are many other jobs and careers where earnings should be higher, demands should be more reasonable and staff should be more valued. I’m sure most teachers would say the same. A Social Worker with a too large caseload who is worried they will miss something because they aren’t given the time to devote to each case. A Midwife taking care of too many ladies in labour because of staff shortages who didn’t get a break in their thirteen hour shift. I feel for those people in those roles too. Their experience doesn’t diminish mine. Their problems and conditions at work don’t diminish mine.

Teachers may moan about workload, conditions, needing our holidays and many other things. That doesn’t mean we don’t value other professions or see their struggles. We have to raise issues for our profession just as members of the other professions must with theirs. We have to defend our profession as, unfortunately, other professionals must defend theirs.

JacquesHammer

Then I for one would really appreciate it if you ceased your moaning about teachers. You don't want to do it - you have better things to do. That is fine. But that means it's one person more difficult to find people willing to educate your children (if you have any). The more people feel like you, the fewer people we have to teach, and the more we need to be cognisant of how much we need to retain them.

zzzzz

It makes your point null and void. People aren't attacking the perks of lifeguards. They are attacking the perks of teachers, while not wishing to be teachers themselves.

Agreed however I also don’t buy this woe is me spent every day from dawn till dusk marking with a quill

My dh counsin is a teacher and married to a teacher they spend the first and last week marking and spending the middle in the shetlands

Then I for one would really appreciate it if you ceased your moaning about teachers

You’ll be extremely hard pressed to find anywhere I’ve moaned about teachers. But then I don’t go in for sweeping generalisations.../

Do you ever think your manner is the problem @Pengggwn?

Because it’s rather odd that you extrapolate me enjoying my job into

You don't want to do it - you have better things to do. That is fine

I don’t suggest for a minute my job is “better”. But it’s better for me because it’s what I want to do