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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I’ve raised her wrong and want to shake her so hard?!

84 replies

Raisedherwrong · 21/07/2018 13:17

Name changed for this and apologies, it’s a long one!

My DD (22) left home last year and moved into a private rent flat closer to her work.
Around the same time she started seeing someone new, a local lad aged 20.
Within a few weeks it got to the point where she was annoyed with him because he’d lost his job and taken to spending all day every day at her flat, even while she went out to work. He’d ‘stay over’ most nights, say in the morning that he’d go home ‘later’ but still be sat in the flat, watching her TV, drinking her tea and eating her food when she got home from work.
(He lives with his foster mum who has fostered him since he was a baby)
Money soon became a problem because she doesn’t earn much and he wasn’t earning at all, he also refused to apply for job seekers allowance because ‘he’d get a job soon anyway’
So an argument started because she told him to go home to his mum’s and that she couldn’t afford to pay for them both anymore. They weren’t going out due to having no money and a life like this is not what she wanted.
He grabbed her arm and shouted in her face that he was looking for work and it wasn’t his fault she was ‘so fucking stupid and boring’ and implied that it was her fault that they weren’t going out and having fun anymore. This, literally less than 2 months after she started seeing him!
She ‘went to the shop’ and phoned me to tell me. My DP went round to her flat and this lad made threats ‘I’ll smash your head in’ (to my DP) ‘smash the flat up’ ‘burn the flat down’ etc.
Anyway, DP eventually got him to collect anything of his and drove him to his mums, told him to stay away or the police will be called.

Had a few conversations with my DD since, along the lines of how lucky she was to have realised what he was like and got rid of him when she did. Me telling her how proud I was that she’d stood up to him, albeit with her stepdad’s help. Especially as her father and I split up due to DV when she was 9, she remembers and hates her father as a result.

They split up at the end of January.

She phoned me one day last week and announced that she’s 18 weeks pregnant, and that the baby is his!
She’s been lying to us all this time about not seeing him because she ‘knew we wouldn’t be happy’ but she hopes that we can get to a point where we can forget about what happened and move on because there is going to be a baby now.
She came out with all this stuff about how he acted like he did because it’s very demoralising to be out of work and how his upbringing wasn’t the best due to him being fostered, his ‘real’ family are awful and he’s ‘a bit messed up’ because of that.
But he’s got a job now, is seeing a counsellor (I don’t believe that bit for some reason)

What am I supposed to do now? This is my first grandchild. She wants us to all get along for the sake of the baby. They’re moving in together soon and they’re going to ba a ‘happy little family’ she says.
Sad
I thought I’d raised a strong, independent young lady who wouldn’t ever get involved with someone like him, but here we are Sad

OP posts:
Gruffalina72 · 21/07/2018 16:17

I understand why you're angry and frustrated, and frightened for her, no doubt. But please try and remember that abusers brainwash their targets, and from what you've recounted he has certainly done a very thorough job of it.

You couldn't persuade her just for your own piece of mind to do the Freedom programme.

Make it a way of saying that you will forgive and forget but just so she recognises things might be perfect in the future but at some point they might not be so you just want to protect her with a little bit of knowledge

I was thinking the same. One of the major points of FP is that they will never tell you to leave, and it's not about persuading anybody to leave - they just want you to have all the information you need to live your own life and make your own choices.

I suspect, if you were able to nudge her into it at this point, that she might not be ready and find it too confronting when she sits there and basically hears her relationship being described back to her as classic DV. If that happens, please don't lose your temper with her or pressure her to finish it. (Although calm encouragement to stick it out should be ok).

However, even if she only made the first week and then panicked and bailed it would have sown a seed, which would hopefully mean that she would reach a point of being able to go back to it and start to see his behaviour for what it is sooner than if she never went at all.

It's very common for women to drop out of the course the first time they go. You do have to be ready to face the truth and enormity of the situation you find yourself in, especially when you've been brainwashed over a period of time to accept their behaviour, to minimise it, to excuse it, and ultimately to blame yourself (and potentially your own family).

As she's pregnant then I imagine there is going to be a large element in play here of her trying to convince herself this is all going to work out beautifully, and that will be extremely powerful on top of his brainwashing. She might not be ready to face this until he escalates or baby is here, so please do what you need to do to make sure she feels able to turn to you if and when she starts to realise she has made a mistake. You don't want her to feel too ashamed to come to you, or that you'll say "I told you so" (even if you won't, it's whether from her perspective she thinks it will happen).

You can find out more here: www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

Even if she doesn't go (yet), it might not hurt for you to attend. It might actually make it easier for you to remain calm and supportive and pretend to be happy with him, if you've got a more thorough knowledge of the mind games he's been using on her. In fact, I would strongly recommend you do attend it yourself.

Be aware also that his abusive tactics will include trying to drive a wedge between you and your daughter, so if you're armed with knowledge about how he might do that you can make sure you avoid falling into his trap. FP covers this.

Looking back on my own life, the more times people tried to tell me to leave (before I understood abuse) the more I convinced myself I had to stay and it was my fault, because I felt I had to justify to them why I was in that situation. I too came to his defence and rolled out his excuses. I wasn't ready to face it, I didn't understand abuse is far more complex than "just" being punched in the face, and I had spent too long being convinced it was normal behaviour.

My gut feeling here is that your daughter has probably compared him to what she remembers happening growing up and concluded that because he is not an identical match to the man who abused you, that he's not abusive. "Well, X was an ogre who did a, b, and c, whereas my partner can be so funny and has never punched me in the face like I saw X do to mum." The best qualities of the new person get compared to the worst abuse of the previous one to conclude "no abuse here".

This is very, very common and is no reflection on the way you raised her. The messages we get in our culture are that abuse looks a certain, simplistic way that is obvious to spot, so it's entirely understandable that this has happened, albeit very sad and distressing.

In the long run, whether she does FP now, or goes on it later (hopefully at the point she decides to leave or has left) it will give her the information she needs to protect herself form future abusers too and stop her from falling into this trap again.

If you need support yourself in dealing with this there is a section on the Women's Aid website for if you're worried someone is being abused, and you could call them for advice: 0808 2000 247.

If you wanted to talk to the Freedom Programme for a second opinion or a different perspective on how to support her, etc, they also have a line you can call. Number on their website. And an email address. They really do know their stuff and have worked with so many women in your position, and in your daughter's position.

Neither organisation will judge you or your daughter.

FP talk about knowledge being power. That will apply to your daughter when she's ready to receive it, but it also applies to you. Arm yourself with what these organisations can share with you, and keep your eye on the long term as much as the present. This isn't your fault any more than it is hers. The only person at fault is the man who's chosen to brainwash and abuse your daughter.

I'm really sorry this is happening to you all. It might take some time, and some really difficult acting on your part, but I do believe a positive outcome is achievable here in the long run. Keep your eye on that when you're struggling.

I also think it's important you know that I didn't read your posts and think "oh well she clearly messed up raising her daughter" or anything critical of your daughter either. I was actually close to tears reading what you're going through; I feel compassion and concern for you both, not judgement.

Moominfan · 21/07/2018 16:17

So sorry op, doubt I'm adding anything new to the mix. She'll need you more than ever and although it's really hard try not to let your feelings slip about him or the relationship. she'll only push you away and not want you to know if it's going wrong x

SheWoreBlueVelvet · 21/07/2018 16:17

diddl. They aren't married so it is her choice.

The advantage is he would have to make the effort to go to court and get paternity rights. One less tool for him to use in future abuse.

Charolais · 21/07/2018 16:18

I am a big believer in nature over nurture. It wasn’t the way you raised her, it might have been her dad’s genetics shining through as far as DV being acceptable or tolerable.

It’s a long story why I believe in nature over nurture. We live in an area where families have known each other for sometimes 130 years and we see the family characteristics/traits through the generations. Sometimes it skips a child. Sometimes it seems to be diluted or bred out.

My son from my first marriage wasn’t around his father much and hadn’t really seen him since he was about 7, yet when he became and adult he had some very bad habits of his father's. They were the kind of bad habits he wouldn’t have been exposed to as a child, so they were not learned. I found it very disturbing because no one in my family, both sides, or my current husband’s family is like that. My son is 43 now. My other son, raised the same way as his 1/2 brother, has a personality the same as mine and my father’s.

I believe we should be very careful who we have babies with. Coming to think of it; when I was more involved in the horses I would only buy young horses if I met their parents and they had good dispositions. I’d never buy a horse if the stud horse had a bad tempered, flighty etc disposition. The best horse I ever had a sire who was the top cow horse on a large ranch. The stud was reliable and sensible and so was his son. His mother was a sweetheart as well. Same with my puppies. I ramble......sorry.

diddl · 21/07/2018 16:29

"diddl. They aren't married so it is her choice."

Yes-the daughter's choice-not Op's.

She can't stop her daughter if that's what she chooses to do.

user1457017537 · 21/07/2018 16:38

I would go as far as to say that abusers only go for strong independent women. The most beautiful, strong, kind and successful women I ever knew, two sisters, both attracted out and out bastards. Your daughter is fortunate to have you and her step-dad, I wish you all well.

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 21/07/2018 17:53

I'd be very angry and hugely disappointed too. Not just for the lying but for planning a baby and not being able to support one financially.

I'd want to protect the baby though so would try and bite my tongue.

Coyoacan · 21/07/2018 18:42

I am a big believer in nature over nurture

Interesting as I've also seen that with horses. A friend of mine had a son with a man who went away and stayed away, so the child never met his father. She claimed that she saw a lot of his father's mannerisms in her son.

Raisedherwrong · 21/07/2018 18:47

@BoxsetsAndPopcorn I actually think it’s more complex than her planning a baby that she can’t support financially. I think she believes he will support them all.

@Gruffalina72 thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts about the situation and FP, it’s very useful information to me at the moment.

Everything I’ve read here is helping me to piece together what’s probably going on with them and helping me to feel strong enough to just smile and let this play out for now. A massive part of me just wants to tell her straight what he’s doing/done and demand she comes home but I know with the way things are right now (happy families) she won’t come home, she won’t leave him.

OP posts:
ParkheadParadise · 21/07/2018 18:58

You never know @Raisedherwrong it might be the making of them.

Singlenotsingle · 21/07/2018 19:05

You just have to be there to pick up the pieces when it all goes tits up (which it will, sooner or later - probably sooner).

Raisedherwrong · 21/07/2018 19:12

@ParkheadParadise I’ve tried imagining a good outcome but, given the lies and obvious bullshit he’s been filling her head with I’ve come to the conclusion that something bad will happen and I’m just hoping that she realises and breaks free from him before he hurts her or the baby.

OP posts:
Singlenotsingle · 21/07/2018 19:15

And Charollais you're quite right about choosing carefully the fathers of our babies. We don't know that until it's too late.

ParkheadParadise · 21/07/2018 19:21

@Raisedherwrong She's lucky to have you looking out for her. Hopefully she's realise that sooner rather than later.

colditz · 21/07/2018 19:27

Please don't blame her for being abused. She hasn't caused this situation. She may have accepted it but she has not caused it.

Please keep your judgements about this to yourself because there's going to come a point in the near future when she is going to need to run, fast, possibly pregnant or baby in tow, and you want her to run HOME.

He's a piece of shit but your daughter didn't turn him into one. She didn't do this.

VladmirsPoutine · 21/07/2018 19:27

I'm very sorry you're going through this OP, but it is not a reflection on you as a parent. Sometimes even with all the best will in the world, shit happens.

I'd take a more pragmatic approach, what are her short term plans? Especially wrt work and maternity pay. What of the living situation? The practicalities of babyhood. At the moment she seems to have a very starry-eyed notion of a happily ever after which I suspect won't be the case here.

MelanieSmooter · 21/07/2018 19:37

I’ve been your DD, though even younger. Please, please don’t be cross/have it out etc. In the long run it’ll be worse for both you and her (and baby)! Be supportive, be open, be kind. She will come back.

toobloodymuch · 21/07/2018 19:48

Hiya, I'm really sorry to hear about your DD situation. You haven't raised her wring at all. The strongest most independent women get dragged into DV situations all the time. The most important thing for you to do is to let her know that you are there for her. No matter what. Try reading this: themadnessthatismylife.com/2015/01/23/imperceptible/

And this themadnessthatismylife.com/2018/01/06/why-i-left/

Snowwhitequeen · 21/07/2018 19:50

What a shitty situation OP. So sorry to read this.

The only advice I can offer, from living the opposite, is don't 'have it out with her' as advised above. She doesn't need judgement and anger, I promise it will only send it back to him. Be there, be supportive, keep the door open to her, and let her know you are there 24/7 and won't judge - you just want to keep her and baby safe.

Off my own experience, I offered this advice to a set of parents once whose daughter (a few years my junior) was seeing a boy they disapproved of. I forgot I even said it, but they came to me a while later and said she was pregnant, but thanks to my advice, they'd been careful throughout the relationship to keep their mouths shut and not judge her. Ultimately it all fell apart with daughter and boyfriend (it was always going to), but they said they still had their daughter and grandchild because they hadn't pushed her away by being angry or judgey or pushy / shouts with her.

Bottom line - be careful not to try to bully her out of the relationship, because she's already with a bully, and I can promise you he'll manipulate it so that he comes up smelling of roses and she cuts you off. It will end, but if you button it and be there for her and are polite to him (despite wanting to slap him!) it will end sooner, and he won't keep his claws in her for as long. As you know yourself, the longer the relationship lasts the worse it will be, so play the patience game to make it shorter with no explosions or temper or fear-based drama. My parents handled me so badly I had nowhere to go.

Underworld345 · 21/07/2018 19:58

Agree with what other posters have said. Be there for her, act happy, give suppport etc. When it all goes wrong, at least she’ll have her lovely family to turn to rather than being even more alone.

Everyone makes mistakes and she’ll learn, even if it is the hard way. If she’s had a strong and stable upbringing, it’ll all be ok in the end.

Raisedherwrong · 30/07/2018 13:39

Thought I’d update (long one again!)

I invited DD for Sunday lunch yesterday. No invite for her partner as my DP won’t allow him here.
I’ve tried to suggest that we ‘keep our friends close and our enemies closer’ and that we don’t want to give him any reason to turn her against us and possibly get her to stop seeing us or at least get her keeping things from us and lying to us.
He can’t see that this guy is able to control DD, even when I reminded him that she kept him and the pregnancy from us he just said that that was her choice, not his, she’s chosen all of this and he’s not letting her partner think he’s a pushover, especially not in his own home. He’s really put his foot down where he is concerned and won’t have anything to do with him as he’s so angry with him, and to a lesser extent with DD.

Over lunch she casually announced that her notice on her flat was almost up (we didn’t even know she’d given notice!) and that she’s moving in with him ASAP to be ready for the baby. I said I thought his mum’s house was quite small and she said no, he’s got them a house with the local housing association!

She told us she had been looking for a bigger (yet cheaper as not private rent) place herself but wasn’t seen as a priority due to already having somewhere to live. Apparently the baby has to have actually been born for it to be taken into consideration.
However, apparently his mum has been able to somehow pull some strings and arranged this house with him because he’s been fostered all his life so he was a high priority.

This house she will be moving into is lovely, she says. Won’t need much decorating, he’s got a grant to help furnish it and she’s taking her own furniture from her flat. She’s so happy!

I am fuming! (haven’t told her, smiled and showed lots of ‘happy’ interest) and to be fair to my DP he managed to play along too.
He hasn’t got ‘them’ a house. This house tenancy is solely in his name, she is going to be put down as an occupant when she moves in but not a tenant yet ever

It’s also many miles away from where she lives now, so miles away from her work (and also miles away from me Sad) She doesn’t have a car as she can’t afford one so her commute is going to be very long.
I’m desperately hoping she stays employed at least until her maternity leave as that’s obviously what’s best for her but I suspect that’s not what he’s hoping for Angry
I gently suggested that she would have no right to stay in the house with the baby if things didn’t work out and she just thinks things are going to be absolutely wonderful anyway so it doesn’t matter.

I don’t know what’s happened to her Sad

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 30/07/2018 13:48

She has gotten herself stuck in an abusive relationship and to be honest your DP attitude is making her feel like she cant come out of it.

You need to talk to your DP his attitude sucks and is causing his daughter further down the rabbit hole of an abusive relationship, he is isolating her completely

Theimpossiblegirl · 30/07/2018 13:56

Oh dear, he is distancing her physically from her family. Not a good sign. You are doing absolutely the right thing, being nice about it despite your completely justified misgivings.

If she's saving money on rent, can you help her get a car on the road? That bit of independence may be vital to her further down the line. If you are in charge of it, you can keep him off the insurance too.

toobloodymuch · 30/07/2018 14:15

This is classic abusive behaviour; to isolate her from her friends, work and family. I'm sorry to say that there is little that you can do but remain supportive and keep the lines of communication open. The worst thing you can do is cut her off even more than he is already doing. It will come to an end at some point but only if you leave the door open for her to seek help.

ILoveHumanity · 30/07/2018 14:21

Refer him to Councelling and accept to only move forward if he goes there

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