To be fighting to help my friend *Possible Trigger warning...grooming*

[VeryConcernedFriend]

Ive NC as extremely outing. Posting for traffic, need urgent advice on benefits and housing. Going to try and keep it as succinct as possible.

Friend of mine is really having a tough time at the moment. Her partner was arrested after being caught in an online sting by a paedo hunting group. None of us had a clue what he was up to and she was devastated.

Her life has literally collapsed.

Not only is she dealing with what's happened but it's possible she could now lose her home. He was the main earner, she had a pt job. She's unfortunately now lost that as she simply couldn't cope with what had happened and didn't turn up for shifts for a week, tho she did let them know. Recent employment so no rights, and understands why she was let go. Now signed off sick with depression for a month.

Had WTC, assessed on the wage she had (about 100pw) plus CTC.

She had already put a claim in for HB and CTaxB before she lost the job.

Then phoned and explained that she had lost her job due to her ill health and was told to claim UC. Claim duly put in, while still trying to hold things together for her teenage daughter and DS19.

Eviction proceedings were triggered as she was 4 weeks behind with rent, due to all of the above.. they are due to issue a summons next week, according to them. And yes they are aware of some of the circumstances.

She has this week been told that she will get no HB and no CTaxB due to her DS19 working. So will get only Child Benefit and CTC under UC. Unsure yet about any other income element, and has been told to wait til 1st week August for decision.

DS19 refuses point blank to pay towards the rent or to move out to allow her to claim HB, despite knowing that eviction is likely.

She's now stuck. He won't move out, or pay anything yet they are including his income as household income. This has left her in a complete pickle, to say the least.

She is deep in depression, so no chance of working anytime soon and afaik cannot claim PIP for 3.months.

How can I help her? I find it so wrong that she basically has an unwanted houseguests whose income is being included despite it not benefiting the household. Can they disregard it? She has tried to get him to.leave but he won't. She has no energy left to fight him and he won't listen to anyone else.

Horrendous situation as it will then destroy what remains of the family relationship

I think that it’s likely once things have settled in a year or so that the family relationship will improve. Her son will hopefully see the error of his ways and will come to understand that it was all the could be done.

We helped her out initially but are unable to offer any further financial help as we simply don't have any more spare. Nobody else within the group has any spare cash. I will talk to her today about changing the locks.

I don't know where you are, but she should contact the JobCentre and ask for the section dealing with vulnerable families (here it's called Suffolk Families and I'm under them). They have way more resources available to them than the 'normal' job coaches and may be able to help.

I'm sorry if I'm way off the mark here.. is there any possibility her son was abused in some way, and feels he tried to tell his mother, but was ignored?? Or did he try to warn his mother in the past?

He almost sounds as if he is trying to get back at his mom in some way. Again I'm really sorry if that is way off what has happened.

I think youre friend will have to put her DD first here, change the locks, call the police - can anyone be with her for support when he returns? Call the police if he gets violent. I know that sounds harsh, but the stress of eviction/finances needs to be removed before she is able to rebuild her life.

All MPs have an email address and hold 'surgeries' - can someone in your group draft an email then get her to send it asap?? MP intervention still takes time, rather than going through a list of organisations, she needs to contact them all simultaneously to save time.

I wish her the best of luck, she's lucky to have a lovely friend as yourself.

No light. Thank You, I wasn't aware of such a section, I will look Into that locally. Dilly, no he hasn't been abused. Thats definite. He is refusing point blank to leave and getting abusive about it. I have told her she MUST get the police involved to get him out. She simply has no fight left in her :(

Your friend will be eligible for legal aid to try and help stop the eviction. If that is not possible then they can also help her navigate a homelessness application.

I wont go into into all the details as Civil legal advice will help her with that too but if she does become homeless , the council will have to provide her with emergency accommodation in the first instance.

They should not be looking at intentionality at that point, although they may find her intentionally homeless further down the line and may not have the main duty to house her permanently because of this.

HA's also have to follow guidance regarding pre action protocols before they evict.
If she has received a S8 notice then she should approach the council now to make a homeless application as they now have a "duty to prevent" if someone is threatened with homelessness.

The council may negotiate with the HA on her behalf and some councils will pay off arrears to prevent her becoming homeless under this duty.

However, if she will not be able to afford the property in the long term because of the son not paying towards the rent then they will look at this too and she will have a stark choice I'm afraid.

I appreciate your friend is in a really difficult place emotionally - there is help out there to stop things becoming much worse but there are no miracle workers and no magic wands and she will need to work with the agencies that are willing to help.

At the moment she has a few hurdles to jump but if she becomes homeless under these circumstances then it will be SO much harder to overcome. I wish you lots of luck. Please ask her to call CLA (see below) 0345 435 4345
www.gov.uk/civil-legal-advice

Thank you Nightfall. Useful info. Another friend is going to try and talk some sense into DS today, and offer him a place to stay short term. Hopefully he sees sense.

Th3 shortfall is 100 per week, the full rent as UC have said she will get NOTHING for HB and CTaxB due to 19 yr old working. She cannot therefore apply for a discretionary payment. She is still in the dark as to what income element she will get, UC have said she will be notified 1st week in August. She has no other income at present.

I'm a bit confused by this. UC is a mean-tested benefit which replaces JSA, ESA and HB amongst other benefits. So she won't be entitled to make a separate claim for HB if she is on UC regardless of whether she has the son living there - she may be entitled to more UC though if he was not there. Whilst the son lives with her, her UC payments will be reduced because of his wages but she still ought to be able to apply for a discretionary housing payment (DHP).

As above, I don't know likely it is that she would be awarded a DHP (they are obviously discretionary and depend in part on how many other people have applied as there is a limited pot), although maybe she would have a better chance if she frames it as she's just lost her job and she would be getting the full housing elelment of UC if her 19 year old son wasn't there but he needs a short period of time to find alternative accommodation.

Anyway, so think you said that she will be speaking to the CAB so hopefully they can check if she is claiming everything she is entitled to.

Ally they have said that she will not get the Housing element of UC at all because of the sons income. They cannot tell her what amount she will get for income element until 1st week in August so she cannot even plan ahead. The only thing she knows for a certainty she will get is the CTC element, for the daughter. Ds19 is refusing point blank to pay anything towards the rent or household expenses, so his income is his and his alone. Another Friend is going to try and talk some sense into him later today.

OP, regular procedure is this: rent not paid in full, for however long they decide isn't right (in this case obviously 4 weeks), they'll then issue a 7 days notice stating they're intentions to have her evicted (guessing that's what they're calling the summons). After this is issued they have to wait 4 weeks before applying for a court date. Then she'll get a court date, days or weeks later depending on how busy they are.

She must make some kind of payments during this time, anything, however small to show willing. When it gets to court it is highly likely (if judges there are anything like here) that they will look at everything and see your friends circs and tell her she needs to pay rent + Xamount a week to catch up. If they've done a correct income and expenditure assessment it won't be anything she can't unduly afford, but at that point she will definitely need her son to either move out or start contributing, and she MUST keep shouting to the rooftops about not getting money from him and being unable to remove him. Nobody will dismiss his work as an adult purely because he doesn't feel like paying.

Perhaps hearing it from a judge will make him listen, perhaps not, but she needs to show she's trying to get the money from him or fearful of his reactions

On the other hand, as a purely temporary measure and possibly it will help get him out, can she not say to HA ds has moved, remove him from my occupancy? If he's not listed he can't have his income taken into consideration and also maybe police will help move him out because "he doesn't live there".

If i was her, I would look at your council website and find out who the cabinet member for housing is. I woukld email that person and the local ward councillors and explain that due to several changes of circumstances, depression etc I was in arrears and due to be evicted. Councillors can intervene with housing associations and should in this case remind the HA that it provides siciak housing and has a duty of care to residents. Some councils, (mine does), have hardship payments to prevent evictions, especially with UC being such a debacle.. I would get as much advice as possible. Foodbanks often have welfare rights officers, there are credit unions, there is the CAB and search for other advisory organisations.
It sounds like everyone in family is shellshocked by what has happened and they need breathing space which they are not getting. I hope it gets sorted,

Sorry but I can only echo what everyone else has said. I assume the son has a history of violence and issues, before any of this happened?

I am not going to put any details but I have a loved one this happened too. The bottom fell out of her world and her kids. There is no way to make it better, there is no easy way out and there is no way to protect the kids completely from the fall out. She can only try damage limitations. That is a very difficult thing to get your head round. We want to save and protect but sometimes cunts like the ex partner take that choice away.
She must find some strength. If there is a friend offering to house the son then the friend needs to tell the son. Then, when he goes out she changes the locks for the sake of herself and her girl. She tells him she loves him but as an adult he needs to support her too. Tell him he has a bed at X address so it’s his choice to make.

I really am so so sorry for her. Please tell her that it will be fucking miserable and hard. Family relationships will break but they could be rebuilt. Just not now. There is no easy choice but she must go with the best crap choice. Thank goodness she has you.

I’m not sure if it has already been said but if she is paying back debt each month with UC she can phone up and get that reduced, I was paying £50 a month as I have £500 debt from a previous TC claim and I have reduced it to £10 pm (you can reduce it to whatever you can afford pm)

It’s not much but it’s all the advice I have

Ally they have said that she will not get the Housing element of UC at all because of the sons income. They cannot tell her what amount she will get for income element until 1st week in August so she cannot even plan ahead. The only thing she knows for a certainty she will get is the CTC element, for the daughter. Ds19 is refusing point blank to pay anything towards the rent or household expenses, so his income is his and his alone. Another Friend is going to try and talk some sense into him later today.

I would suggest checking with CAB whether they think an application for a DHP is possible and has any chance of success. I expect she should be able to make an application as one of the things that DHPs are supposed to be used for is when HB/UC housing element is reduced because of a non-dependent's income. It would be bizarre if you could get a DHP when their income has reduced the benefit slightly, but could not get one when the benefit has been reduced to nil.

I hope she has luck with the CAB anyway. UC is horrendously complicated.

I feel very sorry for ds. Whilst a lot of people his age are at uni having a great time he is faced with a choice of giving up a lot of his salary to prop his mother up or being evicted from his home and losing his family.

All through choices someone else has made

I can see why he is angry.

Either it needs to be presented as a temporary solution whilst the mum gets back on her feet

Or she pushes through and gets a job so she can keep a roof over their heads and if she does this then he needs at some point to pay some keep or be responsible for some aspect of the housekeeping.

If your friend is reeling from this then her dc must also be. Yet whilst she has given up work her ds is expected to keep going to work.

I get the feeling the way it has been handled at the start has not been in a very sensitive manner. The fact that you are involved and I get the impression you to are backing her to issue ultimatum would put anyones back up let alone a teenager in shock

I am also appalled at the responses on here.

Along the lines of when he goes to work change the locks and throw him out.

This is her ds. I have thought about this a lot and couldn't do that to any child no matter what I was facing.

I think whilst your friend is clearly devastated and reeling from all this I think she has to think of the practicalities and go out and get a job.

Completely agree with Olivermumsarmys post above.

The whole family is in an awful position but why is it the responsibility of this young man who will only have left FE a year ago to prop up the whole family? His sister is allowed to be traumatised, his mum is allowed not to be able to cope/ work, but he has to keep on earning to support them all?!

Where is the regard for him and his MH? Young men are one of, if not the, group at highest risk of suicide. Often due to anger, frustration, as a cry for help etc. I'd be very concerned that the action suggested by some posters upthread such as changing locks and throwing his stuff out, could precipitate something like that.

This boy needs as much support as the rest of his family at present. Chucking him out is not the answer. The solution is that his mum needs to find work rather than expecting other people to solve her problems. What's happened is traumatic but other people have been through the same or worse and had to keep going because they didn't have the safety net of benefits and a working teen to rely on.

Her DS turns violent when she talks to him, why should op put up with domestic violence because the perpetrator is her son?

He’s 19, violent and making the situation as difficult as possible for his abused sister and mother.

Can't she get another job? I know it is a terrible situation for her but she will get evicted if she is passive in all of this.

As awful as the situation is, this isnt a 'benefit problem' its a 'son problem'if he gets violent the police can and will arrest him, he cant just go around assaulting people [family or not ] and get away with it and of course the benefits system take into account working adults,

because if you claim housing benefit etc, they take account all working adults @VelvetSpoon, you personally might not agree with that , but thats the system , as for regard for him and his mental health what about his mother or sisters mental health?Nobody should be allowed to get away with being violent

To be perfectly frank, in your friend's position I would seek the help of a couple of large, very calm men to put it to her son that he can either pay up or move out. They could tell him they don't care which he chooses but he has to choose one. Then they stand there looking large. And very calm. I've found this works quite well when a young man is behaving in a totally obnoxious way.

Can't offer much advice, but this link states that the non dependant deduction under universal credit shouk d be £72 a month, and shouldn't kick in until the son is 21.

May be worth looking into.
www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit-housing-costs-tenants/Housing-costs-contributions

*Her ds turns violent when she talks to him, why should op put up with domestic violence because the perpetrator is her son?

He’s 19, violent and making the situation as difficult as possible for his abused sister and mother*

But was he violent before his mother decided she couldn't cope with work and wanted to claim benefits and her mates decided that he was the problem. Not excusing his behaviour but I can understand why.

She is the adult, she brought this man into their lives. She should be the one to fix it and whilst it might have been a shock she needs to get a grip on the situation and put her feelings aside rather than transfer the blame from herself to her son.

I think op you and her have bought into the get rid of son and claim benefits and all will be well in the world. I wonder what will happen when she realises all her problems aren't going to magically go away.

What will happen next year or the following year when her DD gets a job. Will she be asked to support your friend to the best part of £500 per month.

Will you be recommending to your friend she waits till DD goes to work then throw her clothes out and change the locks.
So she can carry on claiming benefits

But was he violent before his mother decided she couldn't cope with work and wanted to claim benefits and her mates decided that he was the problem. Not excusing his behaviour but I can understand why

So, are you saying the op and her daughter (who has beeen sexually abused) should put up with his violence because he’s finding things tough? Because that’s what it sounds like.

Is he actually violent? In one post you said he was bent and violent but in another that he wasnt?

So with having a nearly 19yr old my self, I could imagine he’s finding it hard coping with all that’s been going on (including all his colleagues knowing ) then the first thing he knows is is his mum and all her friends going on at him to move out of his home (even if he’s mentioned moving out before) no wonder he’s dug his heels in. I’d say it’s coming across to him that his mum couldn’t care less about him. I can’t imagine in any circumstances like the above booting out my son but it does sound like he’s very angry at her ? Is this man her children’s father? Do they feel like she’s put this man before them?