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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be fighting to help my friend *Possible Trigger warning...grooming*

97 replies

VeryConcernedFriend · 21/07/2018 00:30

Ive NC as extremely outing. Posting for traffic, need urgent advice on benefits and housing. Going to try and keep it as succinct as possible.

Friend of mine is really having a tough time at the moment. Her partner was arrested after being caught in an online sting by a paedo hunting group. None of us had a clue what he was up to and she was devastated.

Her life has literally collapsed.

Not only is she dealing with what's happened but it's possible she could now lose her home. He was the main earner, she had a pt job. She's unfortunately now lost that as she simply couldn't cope with what had happened and didn't turn up for shifts for a week, tho she did let them know. Recent employment so no rights, and understands why she was let go. Now signed off sick with depression for a month.

Had WTC, assessed on the wage she had (about 100pw) plus CTC.

She had already put a claim in for HB and CTaxB before she lost the job.

Then phoned and explained that she had lost her job due to her ill health and was told to claim UC. Claim duly put in, while still trying to hold things together for her teenage daughter and DS19.

Eviction proceedings were triggered as she was 4 weeks behind with rent, due to all of the above.. they are due to issue a summons next week, according to them. And yes they are aware of some of the circumstances.

She has this week been told that she will get no HB and no CTaxB due to her DS19 working. So will get only Child Benefit and CTC under UC. Unsure yet about any other income element, and has been told to wait til 1st week August for decision.

DS19 refuses point blank to pay towards the rent or to move out to allow her to claim HB, despite knowing that eviction is likely.

She's now stuck. He won't move out, or pay anything yet they are including his income as household income. This has left her in a complete pickle, to say the least.

She is deep in depression, so no chance of working anytime soon and afaik cannot claim PIP for 3.months.

How can I help her? I find it so wrong that she basically has an unwanted houseguests whose income is being included despite it not benefiting the household. Can they disregard it? She has tried to get him to.leave but he won't. She has no energy left to fight him and he won't listen to anyone else.

OP posts:
SoShinySoChrome · 21/07/2018 06:00

She needs to call Citizens Advice.

Original poster
VeryConcernedFriend · 21/07/2018 06:01

Thanks Maverick. UV have given her 500 up front but she has.to.pay 41 pm back and she still hasn't been given a figure of what she will get. I have tried WA but they have no advocacy service locally. Waiting on a CAB appt as a distance away. We can transport her.

We have tried to step in but he's not having it.

Food bank is an.option, thanks..We are feeding family at mo but gives her another option.

Monday is about CAB, Shelter and hopefully Law centre.

Is so obvious to all of us that son needs to move out, as he can afford to and has been saying he wants to for months (before all this). But he won't. So she is stuck. MH rapidly declining, to scary levels. And we don't know how else to proceed. Impasse.

OP posts:
Original poster
VeryConcernedFriend · 21/07/2018 06:01

UC*

OP posts:
Original poster
VeryConcernedFriend · 21/07/2018 06:06

Urban, the police have said it's a family matter and won't get.involved. Which has made it worse as now he is digging his heels in and getting violent. Rage but not touching iyswim.

Going to get some kip now, thanks for help so far. Can't see beyond shelter and cab Monday.

Would appreciate other suggestions. Thanks x

OP posts:
Karenoid · 21/07/2018 06:08

Sorry your friend is going through such a tough time. I would definitely advise her to work with the CAB and get back in touch with UC as her housing costs should be taken into account by UC as she can't claim HB if she's getting UC.

Urbanbeetler · 21/07/2018 06:14

If he is getting violent, she needs to keep calling the police. They cannot keep saying it is a family matter - it is domestic violence and the police are meant to act to protect these days.

SugarIsAmazing · 21/07/2018 07:15

I'm going to be harsh here but she needs to put her teenage daughter first and get a job.
The son should probably contribute but probably thinks why should he pay when mum pays nothing.
Or if she's really incapable could the teens live with their dad?

Labradoodliedoodoo · 21/07/2018 07:24

THe violence is a police matter.

Can you talk to his close friends and get them on board.

Oliversmumsarmy · 21/07/2018 07:31

Does her ds pay anything to her ATM.

Is he refusing to pay £100+ per month keep which would make up the shortfall

It would cost him more than that if he moved out.

Is friend still feeding, do his washing etc.

I know ds is getting angry and refusing to move out but the impact on him at a personal level must be huge. This was the parent he looked up to. His role model and his role model turned out to be a huge devastating disappointment.

Has the ds had any councilling to help him come to terms with what has gone on. In the meantime could your friend sit down with him on her own and show him all the bills and work out what is the shortfall for a temporary solution. Your friend will get over this and eventually go back to work but give him a choice.

In some ways I can see where ds is coming from. He is a teenage boy who almost overnight has had everything ripped from him more so than DD. Your friend is an adult and can process this better and sees the practicalities to overcome.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 21/07/2018 07:32

Or if she's really incapable could the teens live with their dad?

The Dad is a paedophile who’s facing conviction so not sure that’s a good thing.

OP, Social housing contracts with assured tenancy are too valuable to give up, it would be awful if she lost hers.

Have you explained the situation to the HA as they can sometimes be very understanding.

Failing that there really no option but for your friend to do the awful thing of giving her DS the ultimatum of moving out or paying rent.

Your poor friend. It’s good that she has you Flowers

Pleasebecareful · 21/07/2018 07:56

Hi OP

I am so sorry that your friend is going through this,she must be devastated.
You are a very good friend to be supporting them.
Please be careful with the 19 year old, I know you said you are sure that their F never abused then but from experience they might deny deny as to not hurt their DM and face the truth themselves, they really do have my sympathy.
Not sure if it's just because in my country recently a 19 year old just killed his mum and siblings, such a heart shattering thing to happen, I would hate for him to hurt your friend and her DD
Best of luck with getting her sorted, sorry I don't have any answers for her, just wanted to offer support and also say that besides the homelessness she is facing, what she is going through with her family can get better, especially with therapy x

Basta · 21/07/2018 08:01

Have I understood correctly that the rent is covered bar a £100 p/m shortfall? If so, could you and a few other friends cover this temporarily, just to remove the immediate threat of eviction which must be tremendously stressful in itself?

Secondly, is it likely that your friend will be able to cover her rent in full once she gets back on her feet and finds another job?

Basta · 21/07/2018 08:04

Is your friend's partner her children's dad?

guinnessguzzler · 21/07/2018 08:07

Sounds a horrendous situation. I know you have local MP on your list but have you thought about local Councillors. In my experience, intervening in individual issues is the main thing they can be useful for, they tend to be able to act quickly to get something re looked at. Worth a shot as it is an unusual situation.

AllyMcBeagle · 21/07/2018 09:31

Hmm. The only thing I can think of is an application for discretionary housing payments to ask the Council to effectively top up the HB she is getting to cover the shortfall. I am not sure though but I would imagine such an application is unlikely to be successful.

Failing that then as pp have said the only realistic solution is that the son needs to leave one way or another. I'm not sure how your friend will be able to get through to him so it might have to come down to changing the locks and getting police if he threatens violence, as incredibly harsh as that sounds, rather than have them all lose their home.

I assume she's explored options of having the son stay elsewhere eg with grandparents whilst she searches for jobs and/or he searches for flat shares.

I also assume she's looked at her budget to see if there are any savings she can make so that she can cover the shortfall (I imagine she's probably on a tight budget already though) or any possessions she can sell as a temporary measure.

AllyMcBeagle · 21/07/2018 09:40

Sorry just read again and noticed it's UC she's applied for so the post above should say 'the housing element of UC' rather than 'HB'.

OftenHangry · 21/07/2018 09:59

If he ever gets violent again, maybe going through domestic abuse route could be helpful. Then the police should treat it as such and they can force the son to stay away.

Original poster
VeryConcernedFriend · 21/07/2018 13:05

To clear a few things up. The exP is not the kids Dad. The kids are not in contact with their Dad.

Th3 shortfall is 100 per week, the full rent as UC have said she will get NOTHING for HB and CTaxB due to 19 yr old working. She cannot therefore apply for a discretionary payment. She is still in the dark as to what income element she will get, UC have said she will be notified 1st week in August. She has no other income at present.

To the poster above suggesting she simply gets a job, she had one. She lost it due to having a breakdown because of what happened. She is not able to function properly on even a basic level at present, after having her whole life ripped away from her. I wish it was so easy. HA is being wholly unsympathetic.

OP posts:
gobbynorthernbird · 21/07/2018 13:11

Why should the housing association be sympathetic? There is someone in the home with the means to pay rent, they're just choosing not to.

Original poster
VeryConcernedFriend · 21/07/2018 13:14

Unsympathetic to her personal circumstances and refusing to discuss a lower payment temporarily once her UC credit is sorted to give her some leeway while she tries to put her life back together. That comment was in response to a poster above asking if she had spoken to th3 HA.

OP posts:
NotAsGreenAsCabbageLooking · 21/07/2018 13:18

I agree with PP that she shouldnt qualify for housing benefit... effectively she is choosing to let a working adult live in that property, if they bent the rules for her surely everyone would claim ‘unwanted lodger’.

He’s her biggest problem first and foremost. Wait for him to leave the property then change the locks?

Original poster
VeryConcernedFriend · 21/07/2018 13:26

We have told her that she may need to do just that. Horrendous situation as it will then destroy what remains of the family relationship.

OP posts:
FissionChips · 21/07/2018 13:32

She needs chuck her sons stuff out and change the locks when her son is at work. Should he turn up at the house being violent then she must not let him in but call the police.
It’s tough but she must put her daughter first. Could you stay with her for a few nights if she did this, to provide support?

matchingpjs · 21/07/2018 13:48

I totoally appreciate how things are not black and white when it comes to difficult teens but in this instance I can see no other alternative but to get her son out right now then make a fresh claim. It’s brilliant that she has you and the group as friends. It sounds like avoiding the eviction is the most pressing concern. I’m not clear of you’ve given your friend money to repay the arrears that stand or not. If not would this be possible for your group to do?

Arum51 · 21/07/2018 13:51

It sounds as if the lad is very, very angry with his mother. Certainly, if he believes she knew her partner was a paedophile, and deliberately risked him and his sister for the sake of her relationship, then he has grounds to be angry. He's desperately trying to regress, and have her prove herself by 'mummying' him and making it all better. Unfortunately, she can't.

What you are asking statutory agencies to do re benefit is against the law. They can, as individual workers, be as sympathetic as they like, but they can't break the law for her. The son is an adult man in full time employment, of course he counts towards the household income. The fact that he appears to be having some kind of breakdown is neither here nor there, I'm afraid.

So yes, this really does come down to your friend. She has no option but to kick her son out. If she doesn't, both she and her vulnerable daughter will be homeless, with the LA having no duty to house them. The only duty they will have is to the daughter, under Sec 20 of the Children Act. Given the circumstances, particularly that the paedophile partner is coming to her home, they may well decide that it's actually in the daughter's best interests to go into care.

The police seem to have abdicated all responsibility here (which is really quite unusual - do they think your friend knew what her partner was up to?). They need to step up, it is not a private family matter. The son is in her home, and can be asked to leave at any time, and if he becomes violent, the police MUST intervene. I would also tell her she needs to call the police if the partner shows up at the house. This is not good for her daughter, and social services will be deeply unimpressed if she does not act to protect the child. She hasn't been stupid enough to let him in, has she?

I'm sorry, I appreciate that your friend is in a very bad place right now, but her only option is to act. If she sits around waiting for other people to sort things out, particularly when no-one else has the power to actually do that, then things are going to get very bad indeed.