To not understand why (and be against) “improved sizing”

[SchrodingersMeowth]

So, I don’t know if this is just in Primark or everywhere will be taking it on but I’m a bit shocked that the sizing for clothes is being re-marked. For example a 10-12 which was previously medium will now be small, 8-10 XS etc.

This feels like an excuse to ignore true sizing and doesn’t seem healthy! Tbh it reminds me of the people who try to push the “Marilyn monroe was a size 16 and perfectly healthy”. But she wasn’t was she, not a size 16 now anyway!!!

I feel like sizing is already generous and changing it to make people appear even smaller when they haven’t changed isn’t good for accountability for the fact that obesity is an ever growing crisis.

I don’t agree that my “new” size reflects my actual size and I’m sure this is going to be the same for many people.

I just don’t see what the point was in doing it!

@winterbella the evidence doesn't bear that out - sizes have been getting larger over the years. I'm quite small - 5" and near the middle of healthy BMI range. However within the last 10 years and despite a bit of weight gain and muscle gain I've gone from size 8 to size 6 to finding it quite tricky to find clothes in many shops, especially ones aimed at the over 30s. Now I shop in places aimed at younger people, or actual kids ranges.
I'm fully supportive of stores stocking a wide range of sizes, but can't see why petite people have to get sized out to do it, or why it's healthy to encourage the idea that size 14 is a medium when for most of us of average height or below, medically that would classify as overweight.

Then why don't people also think "Fuck, I'm a size 4, why don't I just eat some pies so that normal clothes will fit me?"

Well, I have thought 'oh, this is quite convenient' at various points because certain things were no longer too small (from very slim families on both sides, have experienced periods of weight gain due to heath problems) whilst also thinking that sizing expansion of clothes in general shows a sorry state of affairs as regards public health.

Spain apparently tried to standardise sizes 10 years ago. Which appears to have had no effect given the state of Zara and Mango stuff. (Think I last tried on new stuff from both in 2015, not sure if any more recent change.)
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spains-fashion-industry-one-size-doesnt-fit-all-5328760.html

Petite ranges in particular should be stocking smaller sizes and will hopefully keep them longer. I don't look at a wide range of places these days but ASOS is one that doesn't seem to do smaller sizes in petite than in standard.

I have just bought:
A reiss skirt size 10..... Its an old school size 14

Jeans from tkmaxx.... Not sure what 'make' says size 8.... Again I think they are a 14.
Ill send the skirt back. But I'm strangely liking the jeans - I can pull them up & down without unzipping, unbuttoning. Not sure about my arse looking like it hangs down to the back of my knees. Not the look I was going for but they are very comfy.

People ARE getting bigger. Obese seems to be the acceptable standard. It makes people feel better to say that they are a size 10 rather than face that they are obese with all the various health issues that they will face.

See.... Said it now.

But I don't think the clothes fit anyone perfectly, all the time, OP. They don't fit whether you are big, small or medium sized. The sizing system is a guesstimate at best. That's why stretchy materials for form fitting clothes and baggy styles in more natural materials have always been popular. People often have anything else altered or alter it themselves.

why it's healthy to encourage the idea that size 14 is a medium when for most of us of average height or below, medically that would classify as overweight.

But it is a statistical 'medium'. Clothing companies want to sell clothes. They label them to appeal to the largest demographic. If it is more the norm to be a 14, then 14 is medium!

Beyond supplying the appropriate clothes so everyone in every weight category can live a full, active and healthy lifestyle, clothing companies do not dictate the nation's health.

Have any of you ever measured mens clothes? Vanity sizing exists there as well. DH (who has a BMI of 23) has to buy jeans with a waist size 3-4 inches smaller than his actual waist to get trousers that fit. If anything that's worse than women's clothes (I tend to find the stated waist measurement is usually 2-3 inches smaller than the actual for most women's clothes).

I am also curiously pleased with myself that I am the exact size of the average 1950s woman! What we now consider a petite size 10 it seems was average 70 years ago.

Then why don't people also think "Fuck, I'm a size 4, why don't I just eat some pies so that normal clothes will fit me?"

Because what passes for size 4 these days could easily be a healthy weight for someone short so why should they put on weight when they are not too thin.

As I've said above I am the average size of 1950s woman. That's 36, 28, 37 at 5'2". I have a BMI of 24 so the top end of healthy. In the 1980s I was a size 12 and considered 'curvy'. Now I am fairly consistently a size 10 in most shops but sometimes smaller in more expensive brands (e.g. I have a size 6 dress from Jigsaw and wear size 8 or XS in Hush). If I'm wearing XS what is someone with a BMI of 20 wearing?

Erm Count, M &S would have you in a size 12 according to their size guide in order to provide best fit for your bust and waist. They're not known for cutting their clothes on the small side...

www.marksandspencer.com/c/size-guides

So maybe size guides don't match the clothes either.

Why can't women's lower half sizing be done by waist & hips... like men's clothes come in waist & length?

Dresses/jumpsuits can be sized by bust & hips with variability for waist.

Whole shop size guides quite often don't match individual garments. I've found sites that list garment measurements to bereliable though.

Primark have really ballsed this up. I used to be a size 6-8 in there, but now I seem to be a 2sx in the 'new range'. They get in one or two items in this size so how the hell I'm supposed to buy clothes there now, I don't know.
They've even done it with the pyjamas.

They've changed all the shoes around too so now the 3's and 4's are on the floor and the 7's and 8's are on the top. They were perfectly fine where they were.

If it ain't broke then don't bloody fix it Primark!

Ffs

I've said it before and I'll say it again; anyone who thinks that being fat is acceptable or "the norm" has never been overweight.

Ah, more stealth boasting about the superiority of thin people.

If you said 'obese' that would be a lot fairer.
It is literally a statistical norm in the UK to be overweight.
www.statista.com/statistics/375886/adult-s-body-mass-index-by-gender-and-age-in-england/
Lots of people with BMIs of 26-27ish will look normal to the general public because they are average and that's what they are used to seeing nowadays.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5601193/
(review of several earlier studies on visual perception of what is overweight)

And yes I have been overweight in BMI terms. It may depend what kind of places you frequent but it certainly can feel average in some settings.

I am a little overweight. TheGreat. 'The norm' is a statistical measure. It communicates what is common not what is correct.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be overweight. It affects my health, mobility (back/flexibility issues) and energy levels. I am working to tackle it but have to exercise carefully to avoid injury. I don't eat unhealthily but injuries and undergoing cancer treatment have taken their toll in terms of stress and activity levels.

Fat shaming me or relegating my clothes to outsize shops/departments would not help me live an active lifestyle or maintain a healthy diet

I think the difference is now that fashion stores have a much larger demographic than decades ago. Previously once women were middle aged they typically would dress so and not wear the same sorts of clothes as teenagers and people in their early twenties. Now fashion stores are having to cater for much older women with middle aged spread! I remember times when middle aged women lived in kilts in the winter and loose-ish button down dresses in the summer or blouses and slacks!

Yes middle aged women should go back to looking matronly and stay the hell out of fashionable shops.

Not the point of my post, Seren. Although I do think 'matronly' has a certain gravitas about it...
I might aspire to that look. I've noticed feeling more authoritative, somehow, with the short grey hair that has grown through since chemo...(off to contemplate shopping for some kilts for winter).

They've changed all the shoes around too so now the 3's and 4's are on the floor and the 7's and 8's are on the top. They were perfectly fine where they were.

Thank god for that! It was a shit idea putting the shoes most likely to be wanted by tall people on the bottom. It drove me mad. Good on Primark!

Why can't women's lower half sizing be done by waist & hips... like men's clothes come in waist & length?

Why do women’s trousers etc usually only come in one length? We aren’t all the same height! Men are allowed to be different heights, why aren’t women?

H&M were much smaller than other shops though so it was a bit confusing.

I was in a Mango today. I was going to buy something then noted their "large" is a size 12. They didn't have XL so there was no hope for me.

Take your point Op but equally is a size 12 large?!

Erm Count, M &S would have you in a size 12 according to their size guide in order to provide best fit for your bust and waist. They're not known for cutting their clothes on the small side...

www.marksandspencer.com/c/size-guides

So maybe size guides don't match the clothes either.

No, the size guides don't match the actual size of the clothes. I'm between an 8 and a 10 these days in M&S depending on the item, whereas in the 80s I would have been an M&S size 12 down the line, so their size guide hasn't changed but their clothes have. Boden use to be very generous but seem to be cutting according to their size guide again and my petite size 12 dresses are generally fine. Petite sizing is sometimes more accurate than normal sizing though.

I saw something about new & improved sizing earlier, I hadn't looked at what they meant.

Sizing just varies so much. I have some basic Topshop vest tops in sizes 8, 10 and 12. The 10s are smallest, the straps on the 8 are way baggier than the others. They're the same vest top in different colours. Never have worked out if it was an error or just weird.

I struggle with knowing my accurate size because of anorexia and dysmorphia. I am not far off weight-restored now [current BMI of 17.8ish, if that adds context], but even throughout anorexia there are certain shops where I have to buy size 12 - my usual size - and other shops that come up smaller.

Even then it never seems to work out. Like trousers in an 8/10/12/14 etc. But our legs are different lengths. :/