“One knows that“, “One sees that“, AIBU to think dh is being conscending?

[ConfusedWife1234]

Backstory: This is actually not a lighthearted thread, my husband has mental health issues and he has been very unhappy lately because he feels unable to lead at the workplace. He feels that those working for him just do as they please instead of following his lead. I thought about writing in Relationships but it is also an AIBU.

So a little story from our life’s. I was making a floral arrangement and that is something dh does not care about at all, but when he came in he told me that of course I must be knowing I was doing this all wrong, because the one kind of flower would make the others wither and it would not last. I have been arranging flowers since childhood, he does not care about flowers at all. I have never heard of that before so I asked him how he knew (and I was being friendly) and he cursed and said “One just knows“. Then he kind of strutted around, inspected my other flower arrangements and proclaimed those were better.

He really does not like being asked questions that question his authority (or so he thinks). He just answers that “One just knows“, or “One just sees“ and to my that sounds snobby and coscending. Also he sometimes micromanaged (like in this case inspecting my flower arrangements which are none of his business, plus he was also wrong with what said about arranging flowers).

I really do love him and he can be such a nice and loyal spouse, he can also be very modest but this annoys me... and what’s worse: I fear it might annoy those working for him. How do you think? AIBU to think this annoys people? AIBU to want to discuss this with him? AIBU to ask how to do this without hurting his feelings, because he already feels worthless and unable to lead?

I'm afraid I wouldn't have been as kind. I would have just said something like no wonder you're having problems at work and he would have gone naturally apeshit but I think he would have got the point

I’m really not surprised he’s struggling to lead at work, I certainly could not take a boss seriously who spoke like this.
As above, mh issues are not an excuse to treat people badly.

Saying 'One does this not that ' conveys meaning though, which is 'if one belongs to a certain social class, one... says lavatory not toilet' for example. One just does, doesn't one?

OP's DH has co-opted that social signalling / snobbish 'one' to mean 'himself alone', while somehow claiming the social solidarity with his view that 'one' properly implies.

The reason this sounds condecending is that in this instance the term ‘one’ is used to denote a universal person. It means ‘A person just knows’ (as opposed to ‘I just know’.

The effect of this is t imply that everybody knows this, and therefore the person who doesn’t know it is particularly stupid.

Mean of him to pass judgement on something you love and he couldn't care less about. Definitely sounds like he was flexing his authority muscles. As for the 'one' thing... I do this sometimes, but only because I'm an old-fashioned grammar pedant who reads too much PG Wodehouse. Unless you're the Queen, it's basically a generalisation, as in "One shouldn't make personal remarks". It's just another way of saying "The whole human race shouldn't make personal remarks." Saying "One just knows" that such-and-such a flower does such-and-such just comes across as daft, because in reality not everyone knows that. And he was wrong anyway. So his use of it is just plain annoying and YANBU!

Aside from the twatty behaviour and attitude to you, he's using 'one' incorrectly anyway!

YANBU, he is BU and twatty!

On the wider issue, do you think he's struggling to adapt from military rank and authoritirianism to a civilian workplace? Has he had some good training? Might mentoring be useful to him?

Elementree You mean what happens if I do not react to him strutting around? Not much. He struts around, he does some more strutting around, he holds himself all straight and purses his lips. My mother says he is looking like a proud horse (or I think maybe more like a proud little cock on a farm), he swears and does some more strutting around, then he gets bored of strutting around and smokes a cigarette and after that he comes back and often gives me a cuddle or asks how he can help with whatever I am doing.
He is not an angry or mean man. I don‘t know if he doing the strutting around to calm his nerves or what else.

@all I really do believe he is not feeling well. He shared with me he was feeling very low and worthless and that there was no place for him on this world and that he felt unable to lead in the workplace... and he cried a bit while he as telling me. He never cries, he thinks that’s sissy. So I felt sorry for him. He did ask me to forgive him when he might be acting like a dick.

So I want to discuss his behaviour with him but I do not want to make his feelings of worselessness or being unable to lead worse.

If he’s talking to work colleagues like that I can’t say I’m surprised that he’s having issues managing them. Yes it’s very condescending, snobby and bloody rude

@lottiegarbanzo We are from the same class, no classism at work here.
But I sometimes do think that the military does make people more snobby. Of course not everybody and I hope that it is not hateful to say so but others (who served/whose dhs served) told me that they have a culture of being conscending in the military. Of course this is not true for everybody.

How about in the workplace? Would he actually say this to colleagues? Could it be, or suggest an attitude of, 'officers and men'? Might he have that sort of rigidly rank-based idea about his junior colleagues? (He might get a shock when some are promoted above him).

As others have also said, he's using 'one' wrongly anyway, to mean himself alone. But in a 'same class' context, it would, used properly, as pp pointed out mean 'come on, everyone knows that!'.

What I think though, is that he needs some training and/or other support, so as to learn a more inclusive management style. In particular perhaps, that asking for others' input signals strength and good leadership, not ignorance and is not the same thing as saying 'I don't know, what do you think we should do?'.

Also though, MH conditions can make decision-making really hard and mess with short-term memory. It sounds like maybe he needs more MH support too.

lottiegarbanzo I am not sure how he acts in the workplace but I fear he might act like this. I think that this was actually what he wanted to say that everybody who knows the most basic things about flowers knows that, it was common knowledge and that I must be an idiot living under a rock not to know.

Mental Health aside...he sounds like a pompous ex Army Officer struggling in the civilian world where everyone doesn't jump to his tune..

Now this may not be the case but I have seen lots ex Forces (and where I live it's mostly ex RAF) who go into the civilian workforce and struggle with the command structure, or actually lack of. Some can be quite knobbish..and I say this as a wife of ex serviceman

I have seen some, erm, interesting job applications from ex-military people e.g. using the word 'subordinates' where staff, or even colleagues would have been more normal.

So he has told you he feels low, but doesn’t have a diagnosed condition and isn’t seeking help?

@Loopytiles He has got been diagnosed with ptsd, sees a therapist, is on medication, works out a lot and showers cold and has quit drinking coffee (he does theater things because he hopes that they will improve his overall health and make him better soon). So he works very hard on himself.

@all My question would be: How can I tell him to behave differently without making him feel more worseless. He has ptsd and he has a disability and is unhappy in his job and that makes him feel worthless and he said really bad things about himself. That the world does not need people like him and stuff like that.

• Is there any support available in his work place? Is talking to his boss helpful? Asking for a mentor? Any training or shadowing opportunities he could take up?

• It sounds like he needs some quite basic communications techniques, that would allow him to be seen to be listening, leading from amongst his staff, not ordering them around or being defensive. There might be some sort of work coaching available, or role play in the context of drama, or practise with you?

• Sometimes, even when you're feeling bad about yourself, it's them. It could be that, as well as struggling himself, he is a negative, unsupportive, difficult workplace. Sometimes a change is a good as a rest.

• Sometimes though, you just need to tackle one thing at a time and remember not to catastrophise about the fact that everything else is not perfect.

And, more basically, he must bring useful skills and attributes to his workplace. Can you big those up and talk about how he can make the most of the good things he offers? Look at his contribution from a positive angle?

Again, it depends on whether he has a good manager, HR people or possible mentor but can he have that sort of conversation at work? I imagine he's probably stuck in a bit of a rut, in terms of how he sees things and his negativity may well prevent him from being creative in thinking about possible ways fo doing things and development opportunities. Just chatting to someone and getting a different perspective can be really refreshing and stimulate new ideas.

Also, maybe start a thread in Mental Health or a workplace topic. You might get more ideas there.

It sounds like you love him and that you are quite understanding of how he is and why and that he tends to realise later when he's been a big rude or nasty to you. It doesn't sound hopeless to me at all. He just needs to get through this difficult phase of feeling useless. My father and sibling are/were psychiatrists and people do get better and cured once the medication kicks in etc so things may improve.

Many be if you cannot change pompous nasty him going on about your flowers for now just try to change how you feel to it or react to it - plenty of people wuld have thrown the flowers all over him and said he must never speak to you again so as not to enable that kind of silly comment of his in future . You could just walk away or say - why don't you have a go at rearranging them.I've always been quite happy ebing useless at anything domestic - comes in very handy and I just concentrate on earning enough to keep the family and if someone at home wants to show me they do things like iron or fold clothes or whatever I am more than happy if they are superior at that as I've nothing to prove. Perhaps earn 10x what he does! i found that helped the power balance in my own home.

And we all know where he can stuff the flowers - Elon Musk and where he was told to shove his machine by our brave diver fellow comes to mind.

"One doesn't give a shit what you think"

What kind of mental health issues?

Is he seeking treatment?

I can see why nobody wants him as a leader at work!

He's a monumental twat! full of his own ego, pompous and nasty. I'd suggest that you are sympathetic to how he says he feels, but that if he wants a limitless source of support and sympathy from you, that he needs to stop being pompous and nasty and think about how one's tone and approach could be the reason why one has no followers.

They don't have to listen to him day in day out and alllow him to lead them, and they aren't. YOU TOO can plot your own path.