“One knows that“, “One sees that“, AIBU to think dh is being conscending?

[ConfusedWife1234]

Backstory: This is actually not a lighthearted thread, my husband has mental health issues and he has been very unhappy lately because he feels unable to lead at the workplace. He feels that those working for him just do as they please instead of following his lead. I thought about writing in Relationships but it is also an AIBU.

So a little story from our life’s. I was making a floral arrangement and that is something dh does not care about at all, but when he came in he told me that of course I must be knowing I was doing this all wrong, because the one kind of flower would make the others wither and it would not last. I have been arranging flowers since childhood, he does not care about flowers at all. I have never heard of that before so I asked him how he knew (and I was being friendly) and he cursed and said “One just knows“. Then he kind of strutted around, inspected my other flower arrangements and proclaimed those were better.

He really does not like being asked questions that question his authority (or so he thinks). He just answers that “One just knows“, or “One just sees“ and to my that sounds snobby and coscending. Also he sometimes micromanaged (like in this case inspecting my flower arrangements which are none of his business, plus he was also wrong with what said about arranging flowers).

I really do love him and he can be such a nice and loyal spouse, he can also be very modest but this annoys me... and what’s worse: I fear it might annoy those working for him. How do you think? AIBU to think this annoys people? AIBU to want to discuss this with him? AIBU to ask how to do this without hurting his feelings, because he already feels worthless and unable to lead?

If this were just his personal style he would be as likely to say, "one doesn't remember where one picked up this information, one will Google it"

If you are using "one" only when you are asserting your knowledge or authority over another person, then that's being used to condescend.

I can't see why he is unable to lead at the work place if he is like that with people.

You love and care for him so put up with him. Others don't and won't.

Tell him to sort it out for himself if he wants things to improve at work.

AtSea I did not google it but I have been arranging flowers since childhood and they never withered... and this one did not wither. So he was just wrong.
But thanks for your opinion. I think he wanted to show interest... but I felt a bit patronized... especially when he strutted around and seemed to inspect the other flower arrangements, having a very grave and critical facial expression like some kind of inspector.

Is this type of speech usual for him? It seems an odd way of phrasing things. I wonder if he is slipping into a 'mask' character to sort of hide the extent of his stress/mental health?

This is a difficult one because if this is down to his mental health then he is not necessarily accountable for his actions, but equally you shouldn't have to put up with being spoken to like this.

It might be worth making a diary of when this things occur. Then when you feel ready, sit down to discuss it with him. But be tactful, don't let it be an attack. But perhaps seeing this written down will shock him into 'better behaviour'.

A more assertive response to his criticism of your flower arranging (rather than your aggressive one) would have been to say something like: when you criticise what I’ve done I feel angry and upset, please don’t do it”.

My reading of the OP isn't that she is just upset/angry about his criticism (although that in itself is annoying) more that his attitude towards being asked to substantiate the specifics of that criticism is to act as though he should not be questioned and that his input should be taken as gospel despite her being the expert and him having no previous understanding of the subject.

He was either repeating something that he had heard somewhere, or making it up (and either way he was wrong) so why not just do the OP the courtesy of elucidating? I sometimes say something and my husband will ask where I heard it or how I know and if the answer is 'I don't really, know, it's just something I have always known' then I tell him, I don't act as though my mental encyclopaedia is so unimpeachable that questioning me is an affront.

Ask him outright why he felt it was necessary to do what he did and say what he said in the tone in which he said it. If says "what do you mean?" then explain how the way he is choosing to behave comes across to you, and no doubt others, ask if he is deliberately trying to undermine and be condescending and if he is why?

His behaviour is provoking, for sure, but responding with (mild) aggression - snapping, laughing, saying “how do you know that” is just getting sucked into a negative spiral.

It depends what one is taught when one is growing up!

I would never use "one" that way, but I have friends (English and Indian) who do so completely unconsciously, because it is normal to them, and they definitely aren't being condescending.

OhyesIam He has got combat ptsd but he is seeing a therapist and taking medication and doing everything to get better.

I noticed that when he is not feeling well he is more likely to act like this... and he does also curse a lot when he is not feeling well and struts around a lot (as I call it). He just struts around with a pretty snobby expression in his face that looks like he is trying to play big boss.

OP, this line from your opening post:

He really does not like being asked questions that question his authority (or so he thinks). He just answers that “One just knows“, or “One just sees“ and to my that sounds snobby and coscending.

Is a major problem and neither his home or work life and thereby his mental health will not improve until this is addressed.

He just struts around with a pretty snobby expression in his face that looks like he is trying to play big boss

And what happens if you don't play your role right?

Well it'd be the classic bully tactics of someone who feels helpless and out of control in one area of their lives, seeks to impose control on those they can control.
You should have said 'you seem really angry with me and seem to think I have done something wrong'. Because that's what was really happening. He's taking his feelings out on you.

You really cant pussyfoot around bad behaviour because of his mental health.

I think I would of told him he was being hurtful and asked if he talked to people like that at work. Because if he is then no wonder they are taking no notice of him.

MH problems don't give you the right to act like a dick and not be challenged about it.

If this is how he behaves at work then I can quite understand why his team don't take any notice of him.

He's unhappy because he wants his staff to jump at his every word and for his authority to be unquestioned. At the heart of it he's insecure and that's why he doesn't like being asked a question - because he sees it as a challenge to his position. In his mind his superiority is directly tied to being right all the time. It's an extremely unpleasant trait.

The next time he does this, I would stop and look at him directly and say "Do you have any idea of how patronising and rude that sounds? Saying "one just knows" makes you sound very pompous, especially when we both know you don't know the first thing about flower arranging."

By tiptoeing round his behaviour you are enabling him. If he has post-combat PTSD then it may be that he's trying to claw back a meaningful place for himself, especially if he's been used to people following orders - civilian life doesn't work like that. But a MH condition does not give him a free pass to carry on like a drill sergeant.

I knew someone who did this and he had very narcissistic tendencies.

It's no wonder he struggles with people at work, OP. He has a very inflated view of himself and that would've been noticed on day one.

Having mental health problems doesn't mean you have a free pass to be rude and condescending to others.

He sounds like a tiresome, boring, big headed prat.

If he treats his colleagues like he treats you then no wonder he’s having a tough time.

I have chronic depression, just for full disclosure. Having a MH problem is not an excuse for behaving like a cunt.

It depends how it is said. If it's done as a joke - then it's fine. If he's being nasty then it's not fine at all. I have been known to use the royal we but even I don't go around saying "one just knows" - it sounds really weird these days.

I am afraid my parents who didn't get on for 50 years unto death (and should never have stayed together) had things like this - my mother really disliking the way or things my father said and much else the other way round. It reminded me of the cycle they got into and it wasn't nice for either of them.

I am glad I divorced after 20 years and in my view my ex was depressed although he didn't agree and it became intolerable for us all. I am not saying go that far but I don't think you should have to put up with that kind of treatment all the time.

"Oh, one does, does one? Well, one thinks one is incorrect about that as one has extensive expertise in this area."

"One knows, does he? Can you ask One to give me a call then because I would like to ask One where he gets such nonsense from."

A few thoughts.

'One just knows, darling' would be waspish, camp, rather funny. It conjures an image of someone playing at being an aesthete a la Oscar Wilde.

'One just knows' said seriously, is insufferably twatty. The only reason for saying that is to condescend. The statement is 'I have taste, you do not'. It is divisive, portraying a 'U vs non-U' or 'officers vs men' mentality - and one that suggests 'knowing' and 'no knowing' are innate characteristics, a sense of taste and style that one is born with, not something that can be learned.

Yet, that was a very specific bit of 'knowledge' he imparted. it wasn't just a general comment on taste and value. He must have an idea why he thinks that and where he obtained that knowledge. Or, be able to say 'oh, I can't remember but I was defnitely taught that was true'. That places the source of the knowledge outside him and you could agree to look it up, without threatening his ego.

My experience is that the brightest people and best leaders, in the workplace, are the people most able to admit they don't know and to discuss ideas openly, genuinely inviting comment from others. These people are very confident in their own abilities and knowledge, with good reason, but they retain a sense of curiosity. They are always willing to learn - and assume others are interested in learning and exploring new ideas too. It wouldn't occur to them that someone else having an idea, or knowledge they lack, would reflect badly on them. Rather, it might interest them and moves the group's knowledge or problem-solving ability forward.

The worst people to work with are defensive people. Anyone who is defensive, snappy and closed about their knowledge and their work is telling you that they are fundamentally not confident in themselves and are terrified of their incompetence being exposed. (Well, occasionally defensive people are controlling psychos who want to prove they are right about everything but that type is rarer).

It sounds as if your DH's self-doubt prompts defensiveness, which makes him a closed communicator and probably an authoritarian leader. One who issues orders without good explanations, moreso without asking questions or listening to anyone else. Therefore who everyone else sees as having a narrow, limited awareness of what is going on, so chooses to ignore or work around.

If that's the case, he needs to learn some good mangament techniques, for involving his team, gathering ideas, communicating and making people feel involved and valued.

The irony is that the more open he his, in a structured way, the more people will respect him. The more he strides around 'demanding respect' the less he wil accrue.

I'd say pretty much what stormtreader said. I'd totally take the piss about it and would expect my husband to do the same to me.

MH problems or not, no need to be a twat.

Don't just be nice and not challenge anything until he is feeling better - he may not feel better, and he may figure out that if he cries mental health he gets whatever he wants and a compliant wife who never challenges his dickish behaviour. he needs to get treatment and learn to cope with his MH, with support from you and others, without being a dick to people around him.
And yes - if he does that at work he will lose respect very, very quickly. Someone would have to be amazingly competent and always right to stand a chance with behaviour like that!

When my husband is feeling on the back foot, he does something similar: he sort of purses his lips into this lofty downward smile and slightly creases his brow and starts holding himself all straight and talking in really affected phrases. (He starts using "one" at times like that too.) He thinks it makes him seem like a super-refined Dickensian gent from the upper echelons of society, but it makes him look like a weedy pretentious prat. It makes me want to shake him by the shoulders.

Sorry, no advice there, just sympathy Thankfully he doesn't do it in an especially condescending way, but I agree with others that he's trying to throw his weight around and Lord about at home to soothe his ego re the work situation. I also agree that if he's using this behaviour to try and command respect at work then it'll be making the situation far worse, and he really really needs to realise he's going about it entirely the wrong way.

But he wouldn't actually say 'one just knows' at work, would he? I mean, nobody would.

Surely he doesn't swear at work either, does he? That wouldn't be acceptable in many workplaces and certainly conveys 'I am stressed and out of control' very clearly (in the non-funny, non-casual way you describe it).

When I first met my DH he said something along the lines of - One does this not that. I really can’t remember what it was, but I said “which one?” He couldn’t answer that.

When I met his parents it became apparent why he was speaking like that. Even more so when I met his ex wife.

He doesn’t do now.