To use the word "naughty"

[speedymama]

DTS are 3 yo and go to nursery. This weekend they chastised me and DH for using that word. They did something that I had asked them not to do and I told them to stop being naughty. DT1 retorted with "don't say naughty, I'm not naughty, you can't say naughty". So I responded with "well stop misbehaving then!"

I spoke to the nursery about this and they confirmed that they are not allowed to use the word naughty because it labels the child rather than the act. Now I'm all for positive parenting but there comes a time when you have to just tell how it is. I don't call my boys name but I do point out their bad behaviour and I also praise them when they are being good. In fact, I praise more than I chastise.

As a child, when my parents told me that I was being naughty, I took notice. Now my 3yo DTS read me the riot act. Well, I will not be dictated to by a toddler and if that makes me a dinosaur in terms of modern day parenting, so be it.

So am I a recalcitrant, anachronistic, old fashioned dinosaur who refuses to indulge the latest fads in parenting as dictated by a bunch of pinko liberal, arm wringing, bleeding heart busybodies?

i don't think that's what anyone's saying, tc. plus any toxicity is slow-acting, i reckon, not immediately fatal. i think that being disappointed in people who love you is a very efficient way to make them bend to your will, that sort of passive agression is harmful in the long term. i really don't think that's the same as teaching a child that their behaviour has an effect on others, iyswim?

I wasn't getting at you specifically Thomcat, nor would I. I haven't got a clue how to bring up a child with SN. And if you'd seen any of my threads over the past few months you'd know I am far from a perfect parent and don't consider myself to be one.

I do stand by my point that maternal disappointment is toxic to small children though. It's something I'm quite fervent about.

I think it is to do with it being very very hard for children to cope with feeling responsible for an adults feelings.

Don't use naughtly - do use similar to pph.

"X doesn't like it when you take his toys." or even better "We ask to share toys." rather than "don't snatch it is naughty."

Gooooood Goooood!! Listen to you all! I'm splitting my farking sides here!

What about forced apologies? My dds playgroup do that and I bloody hate it. My wee girlused to apologise straight from the heart unasked. Now she sing songs "sor - ry"

ok, thanks Greensleves. Just hormonal and being a parent is bloody hard and scary sometimes and as a mother to a child with SN's it's all so unknown and different and extra scary. I have no idea what I'm doing half the time I just have to close my eyes and hope now and then and hope we comethrougth the latest thing unscathed! I do get your point that letting your child think they are a disappointment over the years will be damagaing, but I really don't think that's what I've been doing. However I am going to rethink how I handle things from now on keeping the words naughty and now sad out of it!

Well, I don't tend to use the word naughty or silly whether about the behaviour or the person (not sure the difference is picked up by the child tbh).It was never a decision but perhaps comes from my background in working with individuals with severely challenging behaviour and how to approach behavioural problems.

I also dislike the 'making mummy sad' thing.

Firstly, a child is not responsible for my emotions when they can barely understand or control their own and secondly, I am not sad, I am cross or annoyed so thats a bit of a pointless thing to say anyway and doesn't convey anything to a child.

Try asking your child to do something positive rather than point out the negative.

i really don't think that's what you've been doing either, tc.

oh my goodness, now we're on to forced apologies! Oh lord, am I going to feel bad all over again. I make Lottie say sorry when she has whacked Eve over the head with a recorder, is that now deemed damaging and bad parenting???!!!

Have to say I agree with that post Annie. When I was a teenager the things that stopped me doing really bad things was the thought that I would disappoint my mum. Anger I could handle, she'd get over it, but that look of disappointment stopped be doing many a terrible thing as a teen.

You are not cocooning them from the consequences. That is a bollocks conclusion. If a another child is sad from the result then it can be pointed out. That is a natural consequence. Saying Mummy is sad because you won't put your pyjamas on is nonsense and controlling.

TC do you think it is because your mother used the disapointed face only when absolutely necessary? If she had used it when you didn't eat your peas or didn't tidy up it wouldn't have been so effective no?

so... if a child is not responsible for your emotions doesn't that still mean that can't be responsible for you feeling cross / annoyed etc? I do get that making your child feel they are a dissappontment is damaging and I am going to rethink saying to her that smacking other kids makes me sad, but is it really so much worse that saying i'm cross with her?

Have glanced through the thread and for whatever reason I don't like the word naughty. I think it grates on me the way the word poorly grated on people in another thread a few weeks ago.

And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't tell DS and DD they were naughty, or that what they were doing was naughty. I'm more likely to say silly, or say that we don't (hit, draw on walls, delierately ride over someone's toe) in our family.

ProjectIcarus - LOL, yes of course, and I'd never let DD1 think I was disappointed in her for anything other than hitting other kids which at 5 is about as bad as it gets with her. I'd never use the 'sad' for anything else than this. But I'm rethinking that now anyway.

i wonder if it's partly because the world is such a confusing place, so if you're sad because your child walloped someone (rather than the walloppee being justifiably sad) then what happens when you're sad the next time becasue of somehting that has nothing to do with teh cahild? can they separate themselves from your sadness? i suppose i'm thinking of DH who always said he felt responsible for his parents' divorce because his mum was sad and he knew that she had been sad when he'd broken her vase...ergo. poor wee lad.

And I also don't like the "making Mummy feel sad" thing either.

TyrannosaurusRex - but then the same could be said for making mummy cross, no?????

How exactly do you tell a 5 yr old with down's syndrome that pushing or smacking other children and teachers is wrong then? You can't over complicate, need key words, need to reinforce the words that school use and keep it simple but effective. Any suggestions welcome. Do I just say 'Smacking is wrong. Smacking Adam makes him sad, please stop smacking'???

I don't think I've ever said' don't do X, it makes Y sad'. I've said that if one of my children has said or done something obviously hurtful or rude, such as 'I don't like granny being in our house'. But if a child does something dangerous or careless I'd tell them not to do it because it was dangerous or careless and the consequences might be X or Y. In most cases my 'sadness' is irrelevant.

Or do I not mention the negative at all and just say 'Can Charlotte show Adam her kind hands'??? (they use kind hands at school which is where I'm getting that from)

Annie - pmsl - I've no idea you couldn't say cross! I just wondered if saying cross was actaully as bad as saying sad?!! I'm utterly confused myself now, lol!