I like Jordan Peterson AIBU?

[NeatFreakMama]

With his rise to fame recently it seems like Jordan Peterson is everywhere. Personally I really enjoyed his book and I find his lectures fascinating largely, I think for me, because he's a great orator.

I know he has his detractors and I'd be really interested to hear their opinions on him. I don't really see much not to like about his rhetoric; it feels like he tends to speak mostly on universal truths but just in a really engaging way?

ItWentDownMyHeartHole

His suggestion is that society should ensure that girls/women have sex with these angry young men rather than being allowed to have sex and/or relationships with the higher status (and non-violent, socialised type) males.

Could you please give the precise quote where he actually says that?

Er you don’t get the irony do you? PC is a fantasy of the right anyway!

@heartsease68 thank you, this reply I can understand so appreciated! I have heard arguments he's reductionist; I can see what you mean about trying to unify theory. I think a theory of everything appeals to everyone.

@ItWentDownMyHeartHole I've not seen him say that, a bit of rephrasing or do you have a link?

I like him a lot. I think his interview with Cathy Newman was brilliant.

love him

I just discovered him about a week ago while browsing You Tube. Have listened to several of his lectures and interviews and so far enjoying what he has to say. He is very frank and genuine.
I have just ordered his latest book and very much looking forward to reading it.

Jordan Peterson stated the cure for incels was 'enforced monogamy'.

Also; ''Feminists support the rights of Muslims because of their "unconscious wish for brutal male domination."

He does not explain why feminists support Muslims because of their desire for brutal male domination, but not incels.

Apart from the implied racism, there's no arguing with the 'unconscious desire' logic'. If I disagree, its because I am unaware of my unconscious desires.

Its a similar argument De Sade et al used to justify rape; in their time women were not permitted to agree to sex without damaging their reputation. To De Sade, when women said 'No' he could pretend they really meant yes.

So no, I am not impressed by Jordan Peterson.

@ItWentDownMyHeartHole I've not seen him say that, a bit of rephrasing or do you have a link?
Don't hold your breath NeatFreakMama..
ItWentDownMyHeartHole is doing exactly what Cathy Newman did throughout the C4 interview...."So what you're saying is..." and then made a total fool of herself when he was able to show that he has said no such thing.

It's quite comical that supposedly critical logical thinkers are reduced to using school playground name calling and straw man argument.

Jordan Peterson stated the cure for incels was 'enforced monogamy';

“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”

Mr. Peterson does not pause when he says this. Enforced monogamy is, to him, simply a rational solution. Otherwise women will all only go for the most high-status men, he explains, and that couldn’t make either gender happy in the end.

“Half the men fail,” he says, meaning that they don’t procreate. “And no one cares about the men who fail.”

I laugh, because it is absurd.

“You’re laughing about them,” he says, giving me a disappointed look. “That’s because you’re female.”

But aside from interventions that would redistribute sex, Mr. Peterson is staunchly against what he calls “equality of outcomes,” or efforts to equalize society. He usually calls them pathological or evil.

He agrees that this is inconsistent. But preventing hordes of single men from violence, he believes, is necessary for the stability of society. Enforced monogamy helps neutralize that.

www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html

Women are not a commodity.

Google Peterson Incels Monogamy. Holy shit...you’re on the wrong platform. Can you imagine discussing your admiration for a British right wing thinker, mover and shaker who carefully, sensitively took us through Thomas Hamilton’s motivations to help get to the nub of general male disappointment? On a parenting forum.

I like him too.

I'm just glad there are a few people left (not many) who are capable of independent thinking and also speaking it. Good for him.

@ItWentDownMyHeartHole I think we can debate without slinging mud at each other. I'd also suggest it's not the wrong platform because there's a good portion of people agreeing they like him.

Having said that I'm going to read some of what you suggest because it sounds interesting so does he state that socially enforced monogamous conventions decrease male violence as fact or then advocate enforcing it? I think there's a big difference for me, I don't find it insulting if it's just a truth he's stating rather than some agenda he's pushing. It would actually be an interesting observation.

Its irrelevant which form the enforcement takes; State control or social will have the same outcome for the women being controlled. It does not reduce the violence they have to deal with, it just hides it behind closed doors.

Women are not a commodity to be distributed among the needy. The concept infantilizes men, and denies both men and women agency.
It goes against his philosophy that men need to attain adulthood and take responsibility for their actions.

@UpstartCrow so you don't agree that monogamy does decrease male violence? It would be interesting to read both sides; I'll take a look.

No. Previous generations of my family had very high rates of domestic violence, and it was almost impossible for the women to leave.

@UpstartCrow that's awful, I'm sorry to hear that. I wonder what he makes the assertion based on, I'd need to look more into it to be able to comment.

Do you not see the cruelty in his suggestion? He’s completely lacking in empathy.

You seem to think this is an amusing intellectual exercise for yourself and that the traction the misogynist Peterson is gaining has no real world effect. Read Susan Falludi’s Backlash. Your man is no heavy weight, he is not an original thinker, he’s so predictable it’s painful. Also maybe read/watch The Handmaiden’s Tale. Just a thought.

He is a misogynist
He is anti egalitarian, because...nature

The best review of him was in Johannesburg review of books. Last line characterises his work perfectly. ‘Paleo intellectualism crossed with a Hallmark card’. First para great too, as is whole thing:

Imagine a self-help book written by the Darth Maul of tenured campus bad boys, an act of trahison des clercs so severe that it calls into question the entire five-thousand-year academic project—a book that seeks to make accessible to a general audience a mélange of mysticism, philosophy, psychology and dietary recommendations, assembled into a package so intellectually low-cal that it would be hilarious were it not basically a to-do list for a generation of tiki torch-wielding neo-Klansmen.

@ItWentDownMyHeartHole I think if it's a fact, it's true, then I believe it's interesting for him to make that observation as a clinical psychologist. It's for him to look at generalizations across people. It's not correct to say he's lacking empathy, even a few videos on here would prove otherwise but I do think he sometimes doesn't think all the way through some assertions. I've not read it yet but I'll let you know when I do; if he suggests women should be used for men that absolutely that's horrifying but it's not the same as stating monogamy decreases violence. I'm going to read your suggestions definitely, I really am interested to read opposing ideas/ theory.

I also like him. There’s also plenty of ideas on having children, bringing up a family etc, as well as his view on being forced to use gender pro nouns.

Look I'm sorry, but the statement that you can distribute human beings to other human beings as a cure for violence does in fact lack empathy.
Humans are not a commodity.

It also goes against his philosophy on equality of opportunity/outcome.

nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/jordan-peterson-does-not-support-equality-of-opportunity.html

I think he’s quite a creative thinker and I enjoy following the train of his thoughts but if we’re going for the belles of social conservatism I don’t think he’s on the level of someone like Chesterton or CSLewis (although in his day I’m not sure Lewis was really particularly conservative but I could be wrong).

I have a great fondness for “reactionary” thinkers though. I think it’s because I love underdogs and in Whig history they always are.

Can anyone who says they really like JP remember anything he has said? What has he said specifically that you really liked, why did it make an impact on the way you think?

Or did it make sense at the time but now you can't really recall the argument in detail?

Because we've tried to have a discussion and so far its been one sided. His fans don't seem to be very familiar with his work.

TheWizardofWas

He is a misogynist
Please share just one direct quote which proves he hates women.

Or is this just a convenient way of saying "la la la I can't hear you la la la" much like the cries of Transphobe!!! against anyone who dares to say a man wearing a dress does not instantly become a woman.