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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU - arsehole employers, so angry.

73 replies

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 10:09

Was taken into a 3 panel meeting on Thursday to be told I was being demoted with a significant wage drop. Not warned about the meeting but aware of the risk due to a big restructure. Was hideous, I didn’t say word in there due to shock, the most intimidating and humiliating thing I’ve ever sat through in my career. I think they realised 10 minutes in how badly they were behaving as my line manager started to stutter and my co-manager told me they then spent the rest of the day repeating “it was a fair decision” over and over again.

I’ve been doing the role for 6 months and had a glowing appraisal, positive feedback from everyone including my new line manager but 2 weeks demoted me and gave my role to someone I have been managing. They didn’t tell me who was given the position but let it slip out through the grapevine.

Despite 2 emails to the 3 members of the meeting, asking for written feedback, I’ve received no response.

I am so angry and humiliated. How do I go in tomorrow?! No idea how to play it from here.

OP posts:

Original poster

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 10:10

Apologies for shit grammar, angry typing!!

OP posts:

Angrybird345 · 15/07/2018 10:12

Were you on probation? Have you spoken to Acas?

Original poster

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 10:14

No been but only been there for 18 months so no protection.

Haven’t spoken to ACAS as yet, it’s not so much the demotion that is the issue as we are undergoing massive restructure and people have lost their jobs, more the disgusting way they have acted

OP posts:

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 15/07/2018 10:19

If your in the U.K. an employer cannot lower your salary without your agreement. If your role is redundant or you have gross misconduct that’s a different matter but it doesn’t sound legit what they have done. Call Acas- don’t agree to anything until you have and document any discussions on email / and any verbal discussions ask a colleague to sit in with you so it’s not your word vs theirs should it escalate

NormaNameChange · 15/07/2018 10:35

They cant just simply demote you and give your role to someone else! Its the job that is made redundant, not the person - so the fact the job was given to someone else, means the restructure didnt make it redundant and therefore they cant just take it off you and give it to someone else! Definitely go to ACAS, also get a copy of your grievance procedure and the notes from that panel meeting !

Doyoumind · 15/07/2018 10:39

It doesn't sound like they have followed any kind of correct procedure here. It's tricky that you've only been there 18 months but certainly worth talking to ACAS.

tweetweet494 · 15/07/2018 10:44

They can do pretty much whatever they like (except discrimate) if you haven't been there two years, as that's the amount of time you need to be there before you can claim unfair dismissal.

It's crap, but even if you have been there 2+ years they can get around things and do what they like (I'm speaking from experience).

There isn't much you can do. You could speak to your HR department of course, but if I were you I'd look for another job.

WindDoesNotBreakTheBendyTree · 15/07/2018 10:49

This isn't redundancy
What reasons where given for the changes?
ACAS - pronto
tbh this sounds like constructive dismissal

Jaxhog · 15/07/2018 10:49

Write everything that has happened down, and go to HR and ask what's going on. If you don't have an HR dept (or get no joy), talk to your Union or ACAS. Get hold of a copy of your organisation's grievance procedure.

What they've done is illegal without putting you through a formal disciplinary process or offering you redundancy. ACAS can advise you on what to do next.

Original poster

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 10:52

They’ve played the game, didn’t role titles etc. I don’t have a leg to stand on with ACAS of that I’m fairly sure and being there 18months doesn’t help.

I’m looking for new jobs, they said my job (and me) were safe and I absolutely love my role so whilst others who weren’t sure were deciding how to handle the restructure and many claimed redundancy, I was carrying on and fulfilling the new role for my new line manager for the last month, including operational manager meetings for when the restructure was finished - the bastards!!!

I am a fucking idiot!!

OP posts:

DarlingNikita · 15/07/2018 10:53

Its the job that is made redundant, not the person - so the fact the job was given to someone else, means the restructure didnt make it redundant and therefore they cant just take it off you and give it to someone else!

Exactly this. My old employers pulled the same stunt so I got an employment lawyer in. In the end I got paid off to leave quietly.

Original poster

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 10:54

Reasons given - I’m not good enough and the other person is - contrary to my appraisal, my last supervision (2 weeks ago) and feedback from internal management and outside agencies.

OP posts:

leghairdontcare · 15/07/2018 10:55

The law isn't on your side here due to length of service, unless they've discriminated - so if you have a protected characteristic (sex, race, disability etc) be honest with yourself if that may have played a factor. In the first instance, if you want to challenge a decision, you'd be relying on company policies. You need to find our what procedure they are following in making this decision and make sure they've followed their own rules. Raise a grievance formally.

Even if it's the case you leave, at least going through the proper channels will make them think twice about doing it to someone else.

Bluntness100 · 15/07/2018 10:55

They demoted you and gave your job to a member of your team? So they were promoted into your role and you demoted to theirs? Your employee is now your manager doing your job whilst you do theirs?

You don't have to accept it, you can refuse, they then need to move to terminate your employment. With less than two years this will be difficult to fight. But speak to Acas.

I would assume there was a performance issue they have not told you about, I'm sorry, you should have been given notice of issues. It's very shitty.

Original poster

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 10:56

Can’t afford an employment lawyer, the pay drop will eat into my savings if I can’t source another job at my current wage

OP posts:

DarlingNikita · 15/07/2018 10:57

Reasons given - I’m not good enough and the other person is - contrary to my appraisal, my last supervision (2 weeks ago) and feedback from internal management and outside agencies.

Have you pointed out this contradiction to them?

I didn't pay a penny for my lawyer. Her fees were part of the settlement agreement we came to.

Original poster

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 10:58

How can they not tell me about a perfomance issue (they clearly arose in the past 2 weeks!) how can I have no idea that I’m shit. There’s a huge back story to this that I can’t post but the whole thing is bullshit and is either about money or is a personal push out.

OP posts:

leghairdontcare · 15/07/2018 10:58

Are you in a union?

Original poster

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 10:58

Haven’t pointed out a thing yet, they’ve ignored my request for written feedback.

OP posts:

Bluntness100 · 15/07/2018 10:59

Agree, did you commment you were told you were good enough?

Original poster

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:00

Yes in a union and have a phone meeting next week.

OP posts:

TorviBrightspear · 15/07/2018 11:00

OP, check you house insurance, it may include legal costs.

Original poster

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:00

Didn’t say a word in the meeting, too angry to speak!

OP posts:

snowgirl1 · 15/07/2018 11:01

Does your contract of employment or terms and conditions allow them to demote you and reduce your salary? Does your contract state your rate of pay? If there is no provision in your t&cs for them to demote you and your contract states your rate of pay, you could make a claim for unlawful deduction of wages - you can do this while you're still employed by them and it doesn't matter that you have less than 2 years service. The risk is that they could dismiss you...and if they dismiss you, you can't make a claim against them.

leghairdontcare · 15/07/2018 11:03

The union really should have been in the meeting with you. Were you told you were allowed to bring a union rep?

They'll have access to employment lawyers but as I said, it's irrelevant with less than 2 years service. Definitely raise a grievance though.

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