AIBU - arsehole employers, so angry.

[ALittleShit]

Was taken into a 3 panel meeting on Thursday to be told I was being demoted with a significant wage drop. Not warned about the meeting but aware of the risk due to a big restructure. Was hideous, I didn’t say word in there due to shock, the most intimidating and humiliating thing I’ve ever sat through in my career. I think they realised 10 minutes in how badly they were behaving as my line manager started to stutter and my co-manager told me they then spent the rest of the day repeating “it was a fair decision” over and over again.

I’ve been doing the role for 6 months and had a glowing appraisal, positive feedback from everyone including my new line manager but 2 weeks demoted me and gave my role to someone I have been managing. They didn’t tell me who was given the position but let it slip out through the grapevine.

Despite 2 emails to the 3 members of the meeting, asking for written feedback, I’ve received no response.

I am so angry and humiliated. How do I go in tomorrow?! No idea how to play it from here.

Unfortunately as you have less than two years service there is not much you can do about this unless there are discrimination issues (or something else which doesn’t have a 2 year service requirement like whistle blowing). If you claim constructive dismissal or if you are dismissed you will not be entitled to any compensation. Even if you did have more than 2 years you wouldn’t be getting a huge amount of compensation anyway, if indeed any. They allege they demoted you during a restructuring due to performance, unfortunately it will be hard to prove otherwise as it’s very subjective.

No the role has a different title and slightly different task list. They didn’t say anything about performance issues to date or not having the skill set going forward, as the skill set they want is what I have in my current role.

I can’t get them legally because of the restructure, they’ve done what they have to do (and the company is not the issue, as a whole they’ve been very supportive, it’s two of my manager’s conduct).

Take a few days and think what you want to do. Just in case it's not obvious- don't ask any of the 3 managers for a reference.

If you’ve been there 18 months but only been in your current role 6 months, are you now “demoted” to the actual job you were hired to do?

That's so crap, OP.

Sorry but you’re not being consistent. Why were you demoted and why did they claim that you were? Please note that constructive dismissal is just where you claim that you were treated so badly that you were effectively dismissed and had to resign. You need to prove that and then you are in the same position as if you had been dismissed- you have to prove discrimination unless you have two years service and then you can try to prove unfair dismissal.

There is no remedy for constructive dismissal in itself. It’s just trying to prove you were dismissed when you’re employer denies that. If you would have no remedy if you were dismissed being able to prove constructive dismissal doesn’t help at all.

But it does sound horrible- I don’t mean to be unsupportive but it’s important to have a realistic understanding of your legal situation.

If the role is different to your current role op, with a different title and a slightly different task list, then it's arguable he has not been given your current job.

What about the job they are giving you? Has your title stayed the same? What about the task list?

Have they effectively just put this guy in above you in a different and new role?

I'd go in.

I'd ask for my new contract and job description and say you were unable to work until you have it in writing.

Refuse to help anyone as you don't know if it's your job. I need it in writing.

Can I cover you for your breaks? I can't, I don't know if it's my job.

I need it in writing

Use company time to phone acas and head office and apply for other jobs with a competitor

I also think you need to be clear on yout words. I understand you're upset. But from what I can clean

They did not give your role to someone else.
Your role as it stands no longer exists in the restructure.
They have created a new role, with slightly different responsibilities and they have given that role to someone else.
The role they wish you to go into is at a lower grade than you're currently on.
You either accept this new role on a new salary. Or leave, either voluntarily or via termination, because your current role no longer exists.

What would a man do in your position, I wonder? This lark about them changing the job description slightly so that your role disappears and a new , very similar role appears out of nowhere in the middle of a major restructuring- would that ploy be deemed reasonable by a panel of 3 at a tribunal? I'd need to know more about whether they can cut your salary and demote you and I'd ask the union.

If you’re female, was the job given to a man? Or is there ethnicity or community background different from yours? If so, you might have the basis of a discrimination claim. Glad you have a union.

If the job focus changes then yes, they can argue it's a different position, even if many of the responsibility stay the same. This has a new title and new tasks added.

In addition she is not forced to take the alternate role, she can decline. They either then terminate or she resigns. With less than 2 years service, she's right, this is very hard to fight, even with ten years service, it would be tough, if they have restructured and changed the role then that's within their rights. It would be nigh on impossible for her to argue that he has her job.

She could have argued with more than two years constructive dismissal but she can't do that with less.

Obviously acas will advise, but the op needs to use the right words.

He has my job and I've been demoted.,,possible case.
He has a slightly different job, with new additional tasks and a different title, and I've been offered an alternate position on a lower salary because my current role was eliminated in the restructure...no case.

What’s your position financially?

Can you afford to leave? How hard would it be to find a new job?

It's not up to you to prove discrimination, the burden of proof is on your employers to disprove it. On the face of it, putting a man in your place when appraisals show that they have no issue with your work is discrimination. You really need to get some legal advice.

This could be maternity discrimination or sex discrimination, seeing as you are a mother with small children and your job was given to a man.

You could call Maternity Action's employment rights helpline. Acas may refer you to them anyway.

0808 802 0029

Seriously, and while I understand there are some inconsistencies in what you're saying due to being upset, MN really isn't best placed to help you and you can see you're being given inconsistent advice here, too. The ONLY people to speak to are
a) your union; and
b) ACAS

Good luck.

The point is her job hasn't been given to a man. A man has not been out in her place,

Her job has been eliminated. A different new role that encompasses part of her existing one, but with different tasks and a different title, has been given to a man. That's a very different kettle of fish.

Bluntness, OP says the role has a different title and a slightly different task list. Unless the difference relates to something that OP cannot do and cannot be trained to do, on the face of it that looks suspiciously like a cosmetic restructuring. Again, the burden of proof would be on the employers to prove that there is a genuine difference and that there is a good reason for putting someone male in that role who was previously junior to OP.

I agree that you need to call ACAS and your union. They will be able to ask the right questions in order to get the information they need to help you.
I would take a day off today and decide what to do once you've spoken to ACAS.
I'm very sorry about this OP!

They can demote you, but they can't cut your pay without your consent.

To do what it sounds like they have done, if you don't consent to the pay cut they would need to dismiss you with your contractual notice then offer you a new contract at the lower rate. Have they done this?

Otherwise they should be paying you the same salary that was agreed in your contract even if you now have a job title and role that would normally be lesser.

As you've not been there long enough to claim constructive dismissal at a tribunal if they do cut your salary you can continue to work under protest and sue them for the difference as an unlawful deduction.

You would probably need ovaries of steel to go down this route, but if you did it's quite possible that the time it would take would take you over the 2-year threshold and you could then claim unfair dismissal.

Bibesia, totally agree with you, but it's not hard to argue directional focus and criticality of the new tasks. In addition simply because she did the old role does not mean she's automatically entitled to the new one. She simply needs to be considered, which it looks like she was and they decided she was not the preferred candidate, which is their right.

They can argue why this person is in their view more capable of the new role than her. None of us yet know their reasoning. She can argue that she's more suited. But she's eighteen months in and she'd have a battle on her hands as it's so subjective.

The bottom line really is that simply as she did the old job she is not automatically entitled to the new redefined and extended role with a new job title.

She’s also only done the role for 6 months, not the 18 months and it doesn’t sound like it’s the role she was hired for - all the more reason for employer to argue she’s not the right fit going forward.