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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - arsehole employers, so angry.

73 replies

ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 10:09

Was taken into a 3 panel meeting on Thursday to be told I was being demoted with a significant wage drop. Not warned about the meeting but aware of the risk due to a big restructure. Was hideous, I didn’t say word in there due to shock, the most intimidating and humiliating thing I’ve ever sat through in my career. I think they realised 10 minutes in how badly they were behaving as my line manager started to stutter and my co-manager told me they then spent the rest of the day repeating “it was a fair decision” over and over again.

I’ve been doing the role for 6 months and had a glowing appraisal, positive feedback from everyone including my new line manager but 2 weeks demoted me and gave my role to someone I have been managing. They didn’t tell me who was given the position but let it slip out through the grapevine.

Despite 2 emails to the 3 members of the meeting, asking for written feedback, I’ve received no response.

I am so angry and humiliated. How do I go in tomorrow?! No idea how to play it from here.

OP posts:
Original poster
ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:05

I’m 99% sure that I have no legal comeback, they’ve followed everything they have to and for various reasons can do what they please however the union said the way they have gone about it could class as contrastive dismissal due to their conduct (intimidation, refusal to acknowledge request for feedback, letting information leak through the grapevine and assurance I would be safe)

OP posts:
Original poster
ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:05

Grievance is the way to go I think

OP posts:
Original poster
ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:06

Constructive (auto correct)

OP posts:
raison490 · 15/07/2018 11:06

OP ignore these people telling you to seek legal advise, you have been there under two years so you'd be wasting money. The only way this would be worth it is if you have been discrimated against (due to race, sexuality, gender, age), and you can prove it.

I have been in a similar situation, but was in the job for three years. Even then, I couldn't do anything as it was so difficult to prove and the employers did it in a way so they couldn't get in to trouble. I was told unless I have a smoking gun (obvious evidence of discrimation), it wasn't worth it. They know what they're doing, and employment law generally favours employers.

You just need to put up with it, or leave.

Original poster
ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:06

Wasn’t even aware the meeting was taking place!! No warning

OP posts:
wobblywindows · 15/07/2018 11:09

How bullish do you feel ? I wouldn't go in tomorrow at all - your mind will definitely not be on doing the job- and what job exactly do they plan for you to take tomorrow? Have you had anything in writing confirming the new arrangements- including what date you start the new role? If no, ask for that pronto and make sure they specify what salary (so you have in writing to show ACAS). Definitely speak to ACAS. Polish up your Linked in profile and organise some references ready for your next job. Bear in mind that if you walk from that job you will be able to say your last salary was (whatever) , but if you take the lower pay then the lower figure will be the starting point for future salary negotiations with a new employer. Good luck, get ballsy.

Bluetrews25 · 15/07/2018 11:16

Employers can be bastards.
Get the hell out as soon as you can, before they break you.
You deserve better than this.
Best of luck , OP, it's a horrible situation.
Go in tomorrow, behave with integrity and professionalism. Do not give them grounds to make this any worse for you. Channel your inner strength.

Original poster
ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:18

My line manager went off sick the next day, other managers confirmed she didnt sleep well that night and couldn’t come in, so I’m feeling more than bullish! She didn’t sleep?! 😡😂

OP posts:
Bibesia · 15/07/2018 11:23

Is the person promoted to your job male?

Original poster
ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:25

Yes

OP posts:
topcat2014 · 15/07/2018 11:27

Another vote fo not going in tomorrow. If you do, you have passively accepted the change.

This is constructive dismissal, nothwithstanding that you may have no redress.

YearOfYouRemember · 15/07/2018 11:30

Are you potentially starting a family age?

DarlingNikita · 15/07/2018 11:33

Haven’t pointed out a thing yet, they’ve ignored my request for written feedback.

So proactively give them YOUR feedback. Get down in writing their comments on you not being good enough and send them the written records of your appraisal, supervision and feedback.

Your line manager obviously has at least some semblance of a conscience, although obviously not the backbone to stand up to the rest of them.

tattyheadsmum · 15/07/2018 11:41

If you’ve been there less than 2 years then you need to take the discrimination approach (where length of service is irrelevant). It helps that the person taking your role is male (I’m assuming you’re female though). Call ACAS first thing tomorrow. It’s completely free and they’ll tell you if you’ve got a case or not. If you don’t have copies, request copies of your most recent appraisals from your employer. They aren’t going to change their minds BTW, but you might be able to wangle some compensation out of them.

Original poster
ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:43

No she made the decision, one of the others hates me, it’s the other manager on the panel who called a halt to the meeting because of how awful it was and then checked in me later that day.

Problem is I can’t remember their feedback, I had to focus on not up ending the meeting table. All I can recall is my line manager stuttering some response and then the other manager telling the meeting needed to stop.

OP posts:
TaleasoldasTimee · 15/07/2018 11:45

Did they give your role to a man?

Original poster
ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:48

Yes

OP posts:
Original poster
ALittleShit · 15/07/2018 11:48

And I have young children but will never be able to prove discrimination, it’s a push out.

OP posts:
ToeToToe · 15/07/2018 12:06

I'm no expert lawyer, but I used to work in HR - and I would say you have a pretty strong case for discrimination.

If you want to be bullish, then do not go in tomorrow - and send a resignation letter saying you resign with immediate effect, and using the term "the conduct of the company has made my position untenable."

They have ousted you - a mother with children - and given your position to a man. You have a glowing appraisal. This is a clear case of discrimination.

UpstartCrow · 15/07/2018 12:16

Even if you didn't have a case - and it sounds like you do - ACAS would want to know how the company has behaved and they can advise you. Phone them tomorrow.

LiveatCityHall · 15/07/2018 12:28

You cannot be demoted or have your salary decreased unless you've been found "guilty" of misconduct. Although you can't claim constructive dismissal before 2 years of employment there is clearly some kind of discrimination going on here. They can flower it up as much as they like but you have been unfairly treated. I would definitely speak to ACAS as they can advise you further. You absolutely haven't been an idiot.

Bluntness100 · 15/07/2018 12:30

Op, couple of questions.

Does this man have the exact same role you had? From job title to responsibilities? Or is there a change? You mention a restructure, so is there a change in direction of the role?

Did they say there were performance issues to date or did they say you didn't have the skill set for the role going forward as they wished it to develop? These are two very different things.

Bluntness100 · 15/07/2018 12:32

In addition. How did they phrase it? Did they say they wished to offer you the new role on a lower salary? That they had changed your current role and as such were not the preferred candidate and it was no longer available to you? Again this is back to the restructure.

Bluntness100 · 15/07/2018 12:33

If they have changed your role, then it is arguable your current job no longer exists. Does that make sense? Even if they changed it a little in your view.

Bluntness100 · 15/07/2018 12:35

You also said something about maintaining job titles, but it wasn't clear. Has your job title changed? Has his? Does he have your old job title?

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