To think that we all 'damage' our kids a bit, and it's not the end of the world

[Echobelly]

As Larkin said ' They fuck you up your mum and dad/They may not mean to, but they do'...

There's a lot of anxiety created for parents - well, for mothers especially, thanks Patriarchy - that things we do or say or don't do or don't say 'damage' our kids. And I think there are things about all our parenting that causes what the media might call 'damage' to our kids, but what does that really mean?

At the end of the day, unless we are actually serious cruel or neglectful, what this means is that our parenting style might mean our kids might grow up oversensitive to criticism, not great at intimacy, have a bad temper, be shy, talk too much, find it a bit hard to trust people or whatever. But you know what? They'll still have relationships, hold down jobs and have satisfying lives despite those traits.

I think parents need to forgive themselves more - yes, our actions do have an impact on our kids, some of it negative, but the negatives are extremely unlikely to be devastating in the normal course of things.

Well of course, nobody is perfect and it’s silly to think we can raise perfect children
I suppose it’s just figuring out what is most and least important to you damage control wise
I think most people make those decisions on what ‘damaged’ them as children, so if you grew up shy most people would try to encourage bold confident children etc

There is far too much pressure for every aspect of your parenting to be perfect these days, but really everyone’s idea of that is different - it is so hard but you’re right in the grand scheme of things as long as children grow up feeling happy, loved, secure and valued the rest isn't the end of the world

for mothers especially, thanks Patriarchy

Women come under more pressure from other women, when still at school, at the school gates, at work, from MILS, SILS, peers than they ever come under from men. So perhaps if some women weren't so incredibly bitchy, snide and demanding, some other women wouldn't feel inferior?

Yanbu

It's funny/sad that you spend all your time and energy on doing the best job you can day in day out, year in year out and then you find that you can't do right for doing wrong. I have found being a mother so difficult (and still do at late 50's) and then to think I got it wrong hurts so much, all that effort and did I make any difference. Sorry went a bit maudlin there

Yanbu-I’ve come to realise that humanity is far from perfect and it’s impossible to raise a human in perfect conditions.

NewYear those women are part of the patriarchy, patriarchy doesn't mean just men it means the sexist society we all grow up in.
OP I completely agree with you.

YANBU

I think the whole thing is a bit ridiculous anyway as there is no universal standard for what perfect parenting looks like anyway. For example one family may think it's important for a parent to be a SAHP whilst another family may think having a SAHP doesn't provide children with good role models regarding career aspirations etc.

I think we need to have a bit more courage in our convictions and follow our instincts in doing what we think will be best for our children. Each child is different and something that could damage a sensitive child would not necessarily damage a more robust child. Sometimes children will through necessity experience less than ideal situations but who is to say if witnessing and dealing with adversity will damage a child or strengthen them in the longer term? At some point we all have experience stuff otherwise we wouldn't be rounded human beings with the wisdom and resilience we need to succeed in adult life. Obviously I'm not talking about extreme examples such as abuse etc.

I just get so pissed off at the media which promotes scare stories about X 'damages' your child, Y 'damages' your child and a lot of mums end up really frightened that their every decision is causing some irreparable harm to their child.

I try to take the attitude 'Calm down, you're only their parent'.

YANBU.
NewYear - the patriarchy refers to the whole of society, not just men. So women's attitudes (to each other, amongst other things) have been influenced by it just as much as men's have.

You need to keep your children safe, healthy and loved. Anything else is a bonus.
Unfortunately lots of children are not kept safe, healthy and loved. None of these things are according to opinion - but some fine it so difficult.

Completely agree OP

Ironically I find that I became a better mother by my standards when I stopped worrying about perfection and screwing them up

I relaxed , stopped nagging....stopped searching for those picture perfect moments for validation and discovered the best moments are usually when everyone is unprepared covered in mud and laughing their heads off

I wish I'd have understood this when they were babies but there is so much pressure

I think the pressures are getting easier I hope, it seems as if being honest and open is more in vogue than pretending to be a perfect parent somewhat. So hopefully it will take the pressure off of new mum's a little

Out of the most chaotic dysfunctional moments in our house come the funniest and often most loving memories

I had a shouty day yesterday which I'm really not proud of but once I apologised and we all made up we were all so relieved to got out of the cycle of misbehaving and shouting and arguing ....there was a rush of laughter and silliness....im willing to bet we will remember the laughing and forget the arguing

I don't think it helps when you see (like on here sometimes) people being encouraged to believe their childhood was abusive when it merely fell short of what is expected today. That in turn leads people to believe that almost anything they do will result in their child using forums in 20 years time being encouraged to seek therapy and go "no-contact".

I agree with you, Echobelly, re. the media stories - much in the same vein as food/healthcare e.g. eat this/don't eat this. It feels like you can't do right for doing wrong.

On the other hand, I'm slightly sensitive about this subject because I believe my mother did me quite a lot of damage by over-sharing re. her emotions/relationships which made me feel very responsible for her happiness, and also by loving us on a conditional basis/withdrawing all affection/communication if we didn't please her. Frustratingly, the outcome is that I find myself second-guessing the way I treat my own children as I'm constantly trying to avoid what my mother did, yet not go too far the other way! Argh.

One of the rarely-acknowledged advantages of becoming a mother/parent in your 40s, is that you have seen more of life and developed a bullshit/ irrelevance filter (ie become cynical).
Eg when I went to AN classes we were encouraged to draw up a birth plan. Everything I knew and had experienced - human biology degree, my own substantial gynae history, most women’s own birth stories — told me this was a waste of time...and I was right. women less jaded than me continue to believe this idea sold to them by the NHS that they can plan an ideal birth — then feel they’v failed when it doesn’t happen like that.

As a parent you want the best for them, to do your best for them and get them off to a good start.

But you also have to love them for what they are, let them fuck up their own way and pick up the pieces and love and not judge.

It is a major balancing act and I think I really fucked it up. I need to love myself for what I am, let me fuck up my own way and pick up the pieces and love, not judge. Otherwise, how can I help them? It is hard though

Yanbu.
This dawned on me recently too.

I agree with you but I think there's damage and there's damage. For example my mother was a brilliant parent but I have inherited from her a tendency to over analyse and to worry about things before they've happened. It hasn't has any tangible negative impact on my life but I do get a bit stressed if I can't plan 12 steps ahead. My mother got this trait herself from my gran. I would definitely put this in the "even when we try our best we still fuck up a bit but it's no big deal" category. My father on the other hand, whilst never having done anything sufficient to trigger SS, was a nasty bully of a man. He would deny it to his death bed and claim that he was just being a proactive parent and teaching us good manners, but he was horrible. He shouted and smacked us a lot, sent us to bed without dinner, that kind of thing. The kind of stuff that would be abuse if you did it to an adult but is a legitimate "parenting style" when done to children. I grew up with severe anxiety and depression and fell into a lot of abusive relationships as an adult, and I do directly attribute a lot of that to his parenting. My mother would accept that she wasn't the perfect parent and would feel terrible if I retroactively criticised her parenting (which I never would, she's a wonderful mother!) My father would probably fly into a rage, deny everything, try and pin it all on my mum, tell me what a horrible difficult child I was, and then make it all about his hurt feelings. So yes I agree we should cut ourselves a break and not aspire to an impossible standard of perfection, but I'd be wary of the "I can do whatever I want and the kids will be fine" attitude as well. I suspect that attitude is what's behind a lot of the posts on here saying things like "I've moved my new BF in after 3 days an asked the kids to start calling him dad but it'll be fine because children are soooo resilient" or "I smacked and screamed at all of mine and they grew up to be perfectly happy adults" (my father would definitely say this last one, having no idea of the number of years I spent on antidepressants). Ultimately I don't think we have the right as parents to judge "how bad" the damage we caused was. It's fine for us to dismiss things like struggling with intimacy, bad temper, or trust issues as only being one small piece in an otherwise successful puzzle, but they may well seriously affect someone's quality of life. If my children grew up to feel damaged by my parenting style the fact that I tried my best or that I wouldn't personally feel damaged by the things they experience, would be of no comfort to me.

In two minds about it.
Yes we are only human and it’s normal not to be perfect all the time.
Yes newspapers are making feel crap about dong x and y. And other women (ins, MN sometimes too)
And children don’t come with a manual so there is always a lot of trial and error going on (otherwise we woud always be much better at parenting for our second or third child)

On the other side, I think it’s normal to want the best for your child.
From professional experience, I can see the effect of how your childhood and parenting can affect the life of an adult. And it’s not just about abuse and neglect. So many things can affect adults are coming from stuff in (very) early childhood.

My take is do your best and learn form your mistakes.
I couldn’t live with myself just saying ‘well they are fed, clothed, not abuse so they will be fine. I’ve done enough’

Parents, generally, do their best and want the best for their children.
However a job my parents did, they tried their best and I don't think they did too badly.

My kids have turned out to be people who I like and admire, as well as being my much loved DC.

I'm always a bit amazed that people don't spend loads of time reading up on child psychology and spending time with kids before having their own

sorry, but that makes me laugh! What a lot of bollocks if you ask me.

What is "Perfect" anyway? People are different, and a perfect someone will be hell for someone else. Children are different and they change all the time, you have to adapt.

Yes, we all screw our kids up, that's life. We also make them hopefully confident, happy and successful adults. Even leading by example doesn't have a right or wrong way: some kids will benefit from having full time working parents, whilst others will really do better with a SAHM.

The only thing you can do is put your kids first and try to do your absolute best for them, in practice it will mean completely different things for different people.

I think as long as every parent just tries to do a slightly better job that their own parents, then the kids will grow up fine. I know I'm doing a way better job than my own parents did, and I can only hope my own kids do a better job than me.

The middle verse, which is rarely quoted, I find it the most interesting:

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

It implies it is the quality of the relationship between the parents which is crucial

The thing is, we would all be total headcases by the age of 12 if we could be harmed by things in the normal range of parenting, I reckon!

Kids are resilient. They can take being ignored sometimes, they can survive parents losing their temper now and then

@WishIHadntLooked77 - that sounds hard, but out of the bounds of usual parenting if your mum strategically witheld her affection.

I do try my best, but I fear I can be a bit unpredictably cross sometimes and maybe make my kids feel a bit insecure, but they do know they are loved and often express their love to me.

My parents were pretty amazing, but I think my mum's way of compromising about a lot of things and not putting up a fight did leave me a bit too scared of anger and arguments. I kind of wished they'd taught me a bit more about shutting up and listening to people, as I am an over-talker and awful listener (though I am trying to improve). I guess they thought it was cute when I was a kid - I can see a similar tendency developing in DD and I am thinking of how I might find a sensitive way to tell h.r to get better and listening before she starts secondary school. In general my parents probably could have been a bit more critical of me, as I am still terrible at taking even the most politely phrased criticism.

But are any of these things disasters? Have they ruined my life? No.

im willing to bet we will remember the laughing and forget the arguing

WE might but I'm not sure about my DC!

DS (22) still remembers that time I promised to take him to see a film and never did! The little buggers never forget