He says the OW is "crazy"

[NCforthisquestion]

Hi,

NC for this.

A friend caught her DH having an emotional affair a few months ago with a much younger OW. The nature of this was texts, very lovey dovey and emotional. Since then he has made the necessary moves to put this right and work at his marriage. He insists there was no physical contact and no meeting up outside of the workplace ever.

Fast forward to last week when my friend discovered (by accessing his phone after finding his pin) that he has made a call to the OW that day. Very little evidence of other contact between them.

Friend has confronted her DH and after denying it completely he eventually admitted the call and said that the OW won't leave him alone, that she is "crazy" and obsessed with him and that despite blanking her he can't shake her off.

I want to believe this and to be able to encourage my friend that this is a plausible explanation for the sake of saving her marriage. I am also wary of advising her wrongly and fuelling a situation that just may not need to happen because he could be telling the truth.

I just want her to be happy and feel secure in her relationship like she used to so any advice on how I can help her with that welcome.

But AIBU that those caught cheating often say the OW is crazy, a loon, obsessed, put it on a plate etc?

I know that's what my exDP said to me when he was caught and it just sounds a bit convenient for him to me.

Thoughts please. AIBU not to believe that the OW is obsessed and crazy?

He's probably also telling the OW that his wife is crazy but he can't leave her because of blah blah blah. Standard behaviour of a cheater.

They were probably getting the story straight.

Is this my ex? 😆

A minority of people can be batshit when they don’t get their own way, so I don’t doubt him. I think a simple block would stop all the drama

Was she able to find out how long the call lasted for?

I think he's definitely lying but if it's a half hour call that's more likely to prove it because how long does it really tell someone to back off?

I just want her to be happy and feel secure in her relationship like she used to so any advice on how I can help her with that welcome

Once your partner has cheated I'm not sure how you can ever feel 100% secure again. I agree with other PP that I would not be giving advice which can easily backfire on you but rather support her in whatever decision she makes. He sounds like a lying scumbag.

I'll try and keep any "advice" to myself. That should be easy as I honestly don't have any for her. I will support her all the way in any decision she makes and she knows that.

There are a couple of replies here that would give him the benefit of the doubt so maybe I'll cross my fingers for her that he's telling the truth now and that I'm just cynical

If he's telling the truth then he should be happy to show your friend his phone with the text from the OW saying she was going to the event. If she is indeed stalking him, which does happen, then he should involve his wife, be open with her and they should deal with it together. He should also change his number, profiles on social media etc immediately. If he's not willing to do all the above, then he's lying.

When I was cheated on I wanted to believe him too

I think, personally, if I were your friend I would find it helpful to hear your perspective and hear from you that you went through the same reactions and feelings I was going through.

Presumably she is aware of the final outcome in your situation, so you wouldn't need to labour that point, you could just share the reeling do you went through. The denial, trying to believe anything else possible, etc.

Not to convince her, but to give her the opportunity to open up without feeling embarrassed - if it were me I'd find it helpful to be given the opportunity to say "me too" without having to feel foolish for trying to convince myself of the opposite of what my instincts were saying. Then if she wants to ask you more specifics, or whatever, she can do so without you feeling you've pressured her.

I wouldn't tell her what to do, but if she asks your opinion I'm not sure hiding it from her to sit on the fence is helpful either. But just frame it in a way where you're not telling her what you think she should do, you're just telling her how you interpret it. E.g. Saying "I don't believe story, it sounds implausible because x y z" without adding "and therefore I think you should leave".

Telling her that in your view he's following the script, isn't the same as telling her what to do about it. E.g.:

F: do you think she really is crazy?
You: well, it sounds like a bit of a convenient story to me, I've heard it before, but what do you think about it?

Or something that sounds like you!

Sow seeds, rather than instruct, if you know what I mean?

Try not to let the fact you wish he hadn't hurt her like this, and the fact you want a happy ending for her, cloud what you tell her or mean you don't give her the opportunity to think through what it means for her future if she stays with him and he does this again or she later finds out he was lying or she just never feels safe and comfortable with him again.

It's a bit like the advice on supporting someone in an abusive situation, you give them the opportunity to share the scary thoughts and feelings with you, knowing they won't be judged or told what to do. Rather than avoiding it completely or glossing over it when they bring it up so they end up feeling they can't talk about it with you.

Don't suppose she knows how long the call to supposedly tell the supposedly crazy woman to back off lasted?

Let's face it she's never going to feel secure in her relationship again is she? because she's married to a cheater who is happy to lie to her face until he's forced to tell the truth in which case he still blames his actions on other people.

Thanks for that advice. She knows absolutely she can say anything to me without any judgement at all. And she expects the truth from me, as I do from her. If I sat on the fence and backed off that would be more insensitive in our friendship, if that makes sense.

He's deleted the messages he says he received and that is the only call between them in his call log.

If he's telling the truth and tried to have a conversation with her about backing off, how long do you think is reasonable, assuming he might have been trying to hear her out and let her down gently?

And she knows what I felt and went through when I was cheated on. She picked me up off the floor and helped me along the long road to not giving a shit anymore!

He is full of shit. Why hasn't he blocked her number?

If it walks like a duck and all that...

He fucked up.
He got caught.
He tried to place the blame elsewhere.

He's using the script that all men who want to be seen as nice guys use. He is inherently selfish and untrustworthy.
She should take a break from him and tell him to sort himself out if he is serious about their marriage. Then she should get on with her life and write him off.

Oh man, if I had money for every time one of my exes had some ‘crazy’ woman they just couldn’t shake...requiring, of course, lots of calls and texts and meeting up for late night talks about how crazy they are. Classic. No, he’s lying. I’ve been with my dh 10 years now and not a ‘crazy’ woman in sight (because he’s not a lying dickhead).

We are very close and yes she is asking me what I honestly think. I can't lie to her but at the same time it's not me that he is explaining all of this to so it's hard to gauge whether it could be true or not.

Can't you just tell the truth - you don't know what to think?

The whole OW is crazy is a common theme - on other hand he seems to be making changes - and throw it back to her what's her gut reaction - perhaps throw in you were desperate to believe your ex - does she think she's doing that?

I'd be wondering why a text back wasn't done - leave me alone or don't come -rather than him ringing and talking to her directly but that's me. I think your friend need to work out if she trusts his explination or not - and if not what's her plan going forward.

I think it is the fact that he lied first off about calling her which is the giveaway here. Why lie? Did he think your friend is too weak headed or crazy to be told the truth? If it were all as he says wouldn't his partner be the first to know that he was being bothered by this woman now?

She will never feel happy or secure in her relationship again. He has destroyed all trust she placed in him and in turn, destroyed their marriage. Of course the OW is crazy , don’t they all say that... she needs to LTB.

Of course she is crazy how can she let go of such a great man without causing a drama

And no doubt your friend just doesn’t understand him anymore

Poor guy he only wanted some hot sex with no strings attached and a wife to take care of him at home

Same old same old surely it’s time to update the manual for cheating husbands

Any chance she can check his phone bill? At least then she'd know whether it was a one off call or one of many he forgot to delete.

He says he lied because he thought my friend would be more angry at him breaking his promise of no contact.

She's strong despite this testing her and she will ultimately make the decision that is right for her. Thanks for helping me see I'm not BU to think he could've fed her a classic cheaters line. My role now is to support her in getting through this, however that may be

Poor woman. There'll be another phone somewhere. Car, probably, tell her to look in the glove box.

He will only admit to the absolute minimum that he’s found out red handed - which he has done and still lied.

Logically, your friend is never going to feel secure again.
They work together. It’s easy to fabricate meetings on other sites or shag somewhere during work hours.
He says ‘she’s crazy’ but they had no physical contact? Yeah right. Is she a sex crazed 17 year old?
He’s not blocked her. Easiest thing in the world - look wife, here’s her number I’ve blocked it and deleted it, here’s the text I sent telling her it’s over and I won’t be speaking to her again, now I’ve deleted the text and call log as well.

He’s don’t the bare minimum and is now painting the other woman as the bad guy. Absolutely typical, and I’m sorry I don’t think you should give him the benefit of the doubt. I think you should be asking your friend what she needs to feel secure in her marriage again so she can tell him.

I can log into my account with my mobile provider and get an itemised log of calls and texts. If he's telling the truth then he would jump at the chance to show her this.

I would ring the OW if I were her, and ask her if she's crazy.