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To only now realise that Pride is very anti-women - not just anti-lesbian - but misogynistic and male-orientated

304 replies

loveyouradvice · 12/07/2018 14:09

I had no idea....

prideinlondon.org

Of the TWELVE photos that welcome you to their website ONLY ONE is of women .... and to compound the irony that one is of Stewards, i.e. women helping Pride happen, rather than celebrating and enjoying Pride as an active participant

I am really shocked that in this day and age ANY organisation that claims to represent WOMEN AND MEN can be so foolish as to show that they don't think women are important on the first page of their website.....

OP posts:
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6
ReanimatedSGB · 12/07/2018 20:29

Honestly, how often is it really necessary to announce to everyone around you that you are a lesbian and therefore don't want anything to do with anyone's penis? If all the people you socialise with are constantly discussing whether or not you want to sleep with transpeople, then why not find friends with more diverse topics of conversation?

rosesandflowers1 · 12/07/2018 20:31

As another poster said, if the word 'lesbian' now includes women who include penis as part of their sexual relationship, then what word can be used for women who don't want penis?

Trans-exclusive lesbian?

@Rebooting - I think I'm going to have a Google, because I'm clearly missing something.

ReanimatedSGB · 12/07/2018 20:31

Oh, and that set of pictures - the person in the top right corner is Marnie Scarlett. She is a natal, XX chromosome, AFAB woman and a performance artist whose work involves creating these bright, exaggerated, surreal costumes.

Rebooting · 12/07/2018 20:32

Reanimated, are you SGB of old? The woman who championed female abuse victims, usually on the Relstionships forum?

rosesandflowers1 · 12/07/2018 20:34

Had a Google of Lily Madigan.

I'm unsure about the credibility because there were no articles, only screenshots on Google Images, and the only article that did come up was about a fake account.

However, she was saying (if she really said it) what I originally thought she was - she can't get pregnant right now, but could.

I'm unsure what the relevance is though.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 12/07/2018 20:35

I do know that if, I try and imagine I was born with a penis and a male body, I'd feel deeply uncomfortable with it. That's the closest I can really get to understanding.

That is because you were born and grew up with a female body. If you were born male you have absolutely no idea if you would be comfortable with it.

I mean if I woke up tomorrow with a cock and balls then of course I would be horrified, and highly uncomfortable.

I know I am a woman because of my female body and the experiences that I have had due to that female body. That's it. I have no inherent sense of being a woman beyond that. None. And I am quite a 'feminine' woman.

IntercontinentalButtCrack · 12/07/2018 20:35

Love the costumes at pride London this year. Awesome.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 12/07/2018 20:36

Trans-exclusive lesbian?

So lesbians now have to define themselves by whether they would sleep with men? Riiiiiiiigggghhhhhhtttttt.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 12/07/2018 20:39

Ah yes Lily the Lesbian's claims that they cannot get pregnant right now in the same way that a woman who is not ovulating cannot get pregnant right now.

Fun times! 😂

rosesandflowers1 · 12/07/2018 20:43

I know I am a woman because of my female body and the experiences that I have had due to that female body. That's it. I have no inherent sense of being a woman beyond that. None. And I am quite a 'feminine' woman.

What do you want me to say to this?

Because - here's the catch - I don't know. There's no way I could insist that my experience/understanding of gender trumps yours, because I don't know about the inside of your head. It would be tremendously arrogant of me to say that you had to be wrong because of how I feel.

So lesbians now have to define themselves by whether they would sleep with men?

You asked for a label specific to women who wouldn't want to sleep with someone with a penis. You asked for a label defining women by whether or not they would sleep with men Hmm

And as you said women, not lesbians, doesn't that apply to all sexualities?

It would be trans women they'd be sleeping with, by the way.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 12/07/2018 20:49

You asked for a label specific to women who wouldn't want to sleep with someone with a penis. You asked for a label defining women by whether or not they would sleep with men

Yes, this is true actually Smile but actually just serves to prove the point that the only appropriate word for women who exclude penis as part of their sexual orientation is 'lesbian'. If you have 'trans inclusive' and 'trans exclusive' lesbians, then what is the meaning of the word 'lesbian'?

Rebooting · 12/07/2018 20:50

Here, Rose this is the result of claiming trans identifying men are literal women,

To only now realise that Pride is very anti-women - not just anti-lesbian - but misogynistic and male-orientated
IntercontinentalButtCrack · 12/07/2018 21:06

Bottom line is we have no way of knowing or understanding how anyone else feels inside their self. Sometimes we can get close or recognise things if we work hard a thing listening to other people, or if we've walked in similar footsteps. But even that's tricky.

Empathy is a challenge for a lot of people.

On the whole, I don't believe it's necessary to understand someone else's lived experience in order to accept it as real and endeavour to be inclusive of them.

Lots of things we humans think and feel go way beyond what our language words can manage to describe anyway.

And trans stuff is particularly limited by language because the language, in English at least, struggles to use neutral gender when it comes to people, or to differentiate between sex and gender in a way that gives common understanding.

So I have no idea what it feels like to be a trans man like my friend, and he has no idea what if feels to be me. We both listen to one another, and try to empathise, and learn from one another what the things are that wound so that we can avoid saying them or doing them.

And we each help other people learn those things too so that they in turn will be less likely to be inadvertently hurtful to someone else who they encounter someone who is trans, or has experienced the non routine shit that's been in my life.

Meanwhile, lots of people all over the fecking place like to write about what they think it would or should feel like, or say they get it, or we're doing it all wrong, or they wouldn't do it like that, or they'd just kill themselves if it happened to them etc.

Anyway, waffle whiffle.

Point being, we don't need to understand or be able to articulate stuff exactly to our own satisfaction in order to not be arseholes about it.

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 12/07/2018 21:10

I've been saying on here for years that I don't feel able to attend pride, this was just the final nail in an already buried coffin.

It honestly makes me sad how many people will insist they are not bisexual, even when they have sex/relationships with both people with penises and people with vulvas. Very much like the "men who have sex with men" who are too ashamed to just call themselves gay (or bi/pan/whatever). I thought we were at the point where people could pretty much be honest about it :(

rosesandflowers1 · 12/07/2018 21:14

If you have 'trans inclusive' and 'trans exclusive' lesbians, then what is the meaning of the word 'lesbian'?

A woman who is solely attracted to other women.

And, if you are somehow in a situation where you need to specify, you can add 'some are attracted to both trans and cis gender women/females others only cis gender/female women.'

@Rebooting

I think she was trying to say that it probably will be possible for her to get pregnant in the future... didn't they do the first uterus transplant some time ago or did I make that up

Maybe it's a sensitive subject for her? 'Please don't single me out' - it sounds like she very much wants to have children.

I feel empathy for her more than anything. It's hardly the most horrible consequence I can think of - and I wouldn't say a direct one to calling trans women women, either.

As for the first tweet, is she on hormone medication and somehow experiencing the hormone fluctuation cis women do? I don't know a huge amount about how it works, but I think FSH, LH, oestrogen etc will cause irritability, so if herb hormone levels are rising she may very well be experiencing moodiness or stress.
Not sure about cramping though.

Or is she talking about general moodiness when she says 'periods' - again, more sad than anything honestly. It's like she's desperately trying to relate/associate.

rosesandflowers1 · 12/07/2018 21:15

Point being, we don't need to understand or be able to articulate stuff exactly to our own satisfaction in order to not be arseholes about it.

Just going to embolden this as a much more eloquent summary of my feelings on the subject.

BertrandRussell · 12/07/2018 21:21

Are gay men being asked to extend the definition of their sexuality to include trans men?

rosesandflowers1 · 12/07/2018 21:25

Are gay men being asked to extend the definition of their sexuality to include trans men?

There's been less backlash, interestingly.

But yes, from what I've seen.

ReanimatedSGB · 12/07/2018 21:31

A lot of people who are bisexual feel that they are judged and sneered at for bisexuality. Which may also be a reason for some women who date transwomen to reject the idea that this makes them bisexual.
Though TBH most people are at least potentially bisexual. And stating that is not an attempt to coerce or bully anyone into having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, it's a statement of fact. Most people are potentially bisexual to the extent that if they met a person of the 'wrong' gender for their orientation yet found that person incredibly appealing, they might want to pursue a relationship with that person.

Hangingaroundtheportal · 12/07/2018 21:32

But yes, from what I've seen.

Well Owen Jones for one has been quite clear about how he feels about it!

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 12/07/2018 21:34

Oh I absolutely agree SGB

OlennasWimple · 12/07/2018 21:47

Gay men appear to be disgusted at the idea of going down on a transman

I read an advice column the other day that suggested, to the transman who was finding it hard to get dates with gay men, that they should try dating butch lesbians

IntercontinentalButtCrack · 12/07/2018 22:10

are gay men being asked to extend the definition of their sexuality to include trans men?

There are certainly trans men who are in relationships with other men, and trans men seeking to meet guys on Grindr, so thats a yes. Have you not come across that before? I got the impression you were pretty clued up on trans stuff from your othe rpost Bertrand, but maybe that's not so.

I think saying that "gay men appear to be disgusted by" a particular aspect of sex with a trans man is actually not a nice thing to say and a generalisation that would be pretty hurtful to read as a trans man.

Mind you, lots of of women on here are pretty open about not being into giving oral, so I guess the specific is fair game. I.e. "Some gay men", rather than "gay men" with the implicit "all"

BertrandRussell · 12/07/2018 23:03

"But yes, from what I've seen"

A link or two?

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