To only now realise that Pride is very anti-women - not just anti-lesbian - but misogynistic and male-orientated

[loveyouradvice]

I had no idea....

prideinlondon.org

Of the TWELVE photos that welcome you to their website ONLY ONE is of women .... and to compound the irony that one is of Stewards, i.e. women helping Pride happen, rather than celebrating and enjoying Pride as an active participant

I am really shocked that in this day and age ANY organisation that claims to represent WOMEN AND MEN can be so foolish as to show that they don't think women are important on the first page of their website.....

Very few people have the medical or scientific background to make a critical appraisal of a drug’s risks/benefits and so they turn to outside sources of information.

You're right, Bowl. I'm perhaps being too harsh.

What I found so disturbing about what the ex Mermaids member told us was the activist parents who were eagerly pursuing medical transition for their DC against NHS advice. They didn't want to know any different.

But then, I suppose, lots of people believe all sorts of medical nonsense from any old source, even for the most serious conditions. When DH was dying of cancer people in all seriousness told us a macrobiotic diet would cure him. We just smiled and nodded.

When DH was dying of cancer people in all seriousness told us a macrobiotic diet would cure him. We just smiled and nodded.

I’m so sorry prawn :(

That illustrates why bad science gets to me - it’s often aimed at people who are vulnerable in one way or any other. No one can make good choices with bad information.

Being in the position of having a loved one facing death I can well see how people will try anything. There will have been groups of people talking about such diets and some of them will have been sincere, some just desperate and some will be pushing snake oil and have ulterior motives. I imagine similar happens here.

it’s just a situation where there’s so much emotion. These kids are vulnerable and in many ways their parents are too.

Where there are vulnerable people there are predators.

Because nobody identifies as trans

Yes they do. Don't be ridiculous. If they didn't there'd be no Trans Pride in Brighton this weekend.

They feel that they, personally, have an inherent gender identity that it is not what their sex is traditionally correlated to.

Then you admit they have no fucking idea what it actually feels like as the opposite sex.

And, if you are somehow in a situation where you need to specify, you can add 'some are attracted to both trans and cis gender women/females others only cis gender/female women.'

Nope. Because if you feel that need to spell it out you obviously don't believe that males are women. Like most of the world. And have the right to make that clear.

Well that's a bit much prawn! Saying one leaflet written and handed out by a small group of lesbians seems anti trans to me does not make me lesbophobic.

It does, because the word lesbian has been appropriated by male supremacists and used to describe straight males. Being anti this being pointed out indeed makes you lesbophobic and misogynistic.

Or you could just put trans women under the 'women' umbrella?

I don't think so. Because they're not.

But unfortunately I don't have an eidetic memory.

Shame. Cool story.

Just appears to be a lot of straight people in here who don't actually really qualify for an opinion on this stuff... Pride isn't for you.

I'm a lesbian. I'm attracted to women. Some women have penises. And if any one wants to come and tell me 'that means you're bisexual', that's erasing and rewriting my identity. I am only attracted to women and to imply otherwise is offensive. People saying that there is no place for a penis in a lesbian relationship are negating and belittling some of my friends' relationships. I can't express how offensive that is to describe that relationship as a heterosexual one.

Sooo many people assume every poster on mn is heterosexual.
They're really not, and assuming that they are (because; mothers) is a tad misogynistic.

Some women have penises.

No, they don't. The people with penises are male. You can have whatever odd beliefs you like, but they're not women and you can't make people believe they are.

I don't care about your personal identity any more than you care about my privacy and dignity and feelings about the erasure of women as an oppressed sex class.

letsghostdance could you tell me the thought processes that led you to the conclusion that some women have penises? This isn't a trick question-I genuinely want to know, and nobody has been able to tell me.

I think there are some recurring themes here.

Womanhood as a concept being redefined and women have no say in it.

Women's consent being casually weighed up for "merit" by other people as if it is for them to do so, as if women are livestock or something.

Either of these is a red line, there is basically no choice BUT to hold to them. Even of someone can suggest that you're prejudiced for it.

If you have a sense of moral injury about, or feel you are entitled to push on these things it is a matter of not understanding where your rights end and other people's begin.

Which is another thing we've all seen before, isn't it?

Either of these is a red line, there is basically no choice BUT to hold to them. Even of someone can suggest that you're prejudiced for it.

Yes. Definitely red lines, and I am holding to them. It does affect me and I am qualified to have an opinion.

It's interesting how many of the "queer" women in the transactivist movement have now re-defined themselves as "lesbians who like d**k" after the protest by actual lesbians at Pride.

No, males can't be women and women don't have penises - I have sympathy for people who suffer from dysphoria, have lived alongside traditional transsexuals in the gay community for many years and have referred to them as transwomen and by female pronouns out of politeness but males are not literally women. The penis is not a female organ.

Similarly, lesbian means something - We have fought for years to have our own groups and to have our sexual orientation and our boundaries respected - I've been subjected to harassment from men specifically because I am lesbian and they think I need a good "d*king" to sort me out - or they've watched too many "lesbian" porn films where a person with a penis (maybe I shouldn't assume how they identify.. ) joins in part way through and the lesbians are delighted about this. I know lesbian and gay people who have been subjected to conversion therapy and even exorcism. Some lesbians are subjected to corrective rape. And now we have this from within our own community - Lesbians being told that we are transphobic for not being into penises - That we are 'vagina fetishists' and that real lesbians like d*k. And it's the young lesbians, who haven't seen it all before, who are particularly vulnerable.

You can think you are being all liberal, inclusive and progressive by saying of course women can have penises, of course males can be lesbians, of course women who like having sex with people with penises can call themselves lesbians too - but it affects and disadvantages groups who already suffer from oppression. Create your own identity and your own groups, don't try to take over the identity and groups of lesbian women who are already marginalised, particularly when you view our sexual orientation as invalid.

I was pleased to see in the paper today that more lesbians are standing up on this. I wish I had their strength but I've seen what is happening to the lesbians who protested at Pride - Transactivists are doxxing them, threatening them and contacting their employers trying to get them sacked - for holding up a sign saying "lesbian = female homosexual".

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lesbian-fury-at-stonewall-over-trans-agenda-pmm03kw05

I'm not sure if this has been shared before but this explains a bit more about what is going on:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146166-Transactivism-and-the-lesbian-community

Some women have penises

No. They. Dont.

Womanhood as a concept being redefined and women have no say in it.

Yep. Men are whatever men say there are, and women are whatever men say they are.

Great post Iseveryname

Its a reflexion on soscietey, why would pride be diffrnent .

Their group has actively campaigned to remove the 'T' from the acronym, so you'll excuse people who come away with the wild notion that they're transphobic.

There has been a lot of misrepresentation of the lesbians who protested. Mainly by twisting things around.

And now we have this from within our own community - Lesbians being told that we are transphobic for not being into penises - That we are 'vagina fetishists' and that real lesbians like dk. And it's the young lesbians, who haven't seen it all before, who are particularly vulnerable.

Thanks for saying this.
Lesbianism, by its very nature, is exclusive not inclusive.

Where is the pressure on gay men/straight women to consider relationships with Trans Men?

Or is it only women who don't want penises who have to reconsider?

Where is the pressure on gay men/straight women to consider relationships with Trans Men?

Ah well a straight woman might have a boyfriend! You can’t hit on someone else’s property amirite....?

Grim, but it’s the same mindset as men only backing off of you tell them you’re married. Your own ‘no’ isn’t sufficient, but god forbid they encroach on another man’s property...

Straight men are also under no pressure to consider tw as potential partners. Or to be remotely polite about it.

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