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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think people genuinely hate England?

999 replies

beautifulblue · 08/07/2018 22:48

Is anyone else sick of seeing the anger/hatred towards England in the World Cup? This 'anyone but england' mentality from almost every other country is disheartening honestly. I've seen every excuse under the sun, we haven't played a proper team yet, 200,000 signatures to re-play the Colombia match because apparently that wasn't fair, blaming a few rowdy fans for not wanting England to win. I'm especially surprised by the amount of Scottish/Irish/Welsh people who seem to feel like this (on social media) i know we'd so be routing for our neighbours if it was the other way round! So... AIBU to think everyone just friggin hates England?!

OP posts:
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HyacinthBuffet · 09/07/2018 01:51

Exactly. Using colonialism as an excuse for xenophobia. It was over a hundred years ago. No one alive was responsible or involved in colonialism so best put that excuse to bed.

Football aside, do people really think British colonialism was that long ago? The majority of Britain’s colonies in Africa and the Caribbean didn’t gain independence until the 60s. Hong Kong wasn’t handed over until 1997. Right or wrong, it wasn’t something that disappeared centuries ago. It affected people that are still alive today.

GunpowderGelatine · 09/07/2018 01:52

howfar well I have, lots.

Men being sexist against women isn't a generalisation, its proven time and again. Unless you are denying sexism exists?

Graphista · 09/07/2018 01:55

Martha - I think you'll find a good number of England fans and English people DO still have preconceived ideas about Germany based on WWII, ditto Japanese.

The irony of accusing others of xenophobia when a significant number of English people are exactly that.

"British media is awfully biased towards coverage of England" this is also annoying, especially when non-English British teams/people are competing in sports competitions and doing better in those competitions yet the coverage of the England team is overwhelming. There's even been times when an England match has been shown in preference to a Scotland match playing at same or overlapping time. On BBC Scotland!

"It’s a mystery only to English people!" Yep!

"England on the other hand absolutely glorifies it's colonial past." This too - other countries that acted in similar ways don't look back on those times with pride but with shame. Something England seem incapable of. And it's certainly a more recent part of English history than 100 years! Many of the countries colonised were still asserting independence into the 1980's, Hong Kong only stopped being under uk rule in 1997.

"With all the negativity towards England and the English why is it that so many people are desperate to come and live here?" They're really not. No more than any other developed nation. And plenty of English emigrate too.

"...and nNina sums up, in a nutshell, why other nations think the way they do about England." Exactly - it's that unquestioning uncompromising arrogance.

During indyref there were PLENTY of English telling us to "fine fuck off then" and "you couldn't cope without our money" and "you would end up as a 3rd world country without us" both in the wider media and I certainly experienced it personally too (and promptly blocked them!). A quick search shows similar views were voiced on mn too.

"TBF - most of the population of the UK is English so most advertising will be geared towards the English" so that Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland = 10th of England's population means that those nations should be all but ignored by the media? Because that's what happens. Even just "normal" advertising - how many adverts feature a non-English hell even a non southern English accent! Newsreaders ditto, presenters of documentaries ditto.

News reporting - how often do events outside of SE England make the "national" news? Regardless of importance.

And it's actually become worse since the 70's! When I lived in England and visited Scotland I used to notice AS SOON as the tv/radio was on that I was in a different country, there's barely any difference now. Regional programming has been very much diminished.

And frankly "your reasons are bullsit because I don't agree with them" is a fairly typical response of the type we in the colonised nations of the U.K. Are used to.

"Without the English we wouldn't have the modern western world as we know it." Wow! Unbelievably arrogant!

"With the possible exception of Ireland, they'd be wrong. Where were all these English 'colonies' in Wales and Scotland?"

"What 'invasions' are you referring to?"

As mere summary:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_Wales_by_Edward_I_of_England

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_invasions_of_Scotland

Bit more complicated in Scotland as the final few years of Scotland becoming part of uk was a more economic/political colonisation than a direct battle led one. The battles/invasion happened earlier, making this easier for the English to do. But still scots were oppressed & subjugated by the English. Coupled with James vi betrayal of his home country.

"I would say England was colonised by the Scots." Nah he sold us out.

"Again, if anyone can point me in the direction of all those "English colonies" in Wales or Scotland, I'd be genuinely interested." That would be the whole countries - because the land was taken from the Welsh & scots owners and given to English nobility. Just as happened in Ireland.

The history of the U.K. is still being taught in England in a heavily Anglo-centric and anti Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish way too. With the border with Ireland under discussion due to brexit I've come across people on mn and in real life who thought the only atrocities committed during the troubles were committed by the IRA! I've never met anyone English who can name more than 2 scots monarchs, who know why William of orange was hated up here.

"Should the English bear an eternal grudge against Norwegians or Danes?" Are they still governed by or paying taxes to them? No.

We are still very much ruled by an English govt. even with devolution our hands are still very much tied.

RainbowsandSmiles - iirc there was even a recent mn thread about this with an English mner complaining about welsh people speaking Welsh in Wales - I think it was in a pub? Apparently the mere presence of an English person meant they should speak English.

I personally have visited - funnily enough English friends - who now live in the far north of Scotland and overheard English visitors complaining about the scots-Gaelic signage. "Completely unnecessary, they all speak English anyway". If they'd gone to eg

Plimmy - how did the scots treat the Irish badly? I'm a Scot of Irish descent on both sides of my family, the scots and Irish to my knowledge get along very well.

I've also lived in a few European countries and honestly correcting them that I'm scots not English has led to friendlier reception and better service.

As a Scot with an English accent I've been privy to conversations and comments made by English people about the scots (and Welsh and Irish and others) when they thought there were only English people present - the disdain and downright bigotry I've heard is truly shocking.

Nogymjustcake · 09/07/2018 01:55

It's really weird reading this thread
I am English, parents both English , all grandparents English .. as far back as possible really 😂
I have never even considered us being " better " or "superior" to wales !
Never ever crossed my mind !
I do also care about our countries wrong doings and I am deeply fond of most countries.
I actually am rather shocked at the sweeping statements about English people on here.
If we were not in the World Cup but Scotland was I would auto be cheering them on 😂
I think I must live on a different planet

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 01:59

I literally can't believe that you are still clinging to this. People have since come on and said things like they feel that St. George's Cross flag is associated with racism (I actually agree but another clear example of a generalisation - this thread is full of them) yet you're obsessed with clinging to my wee tongue in cheek statement which I have had now to explain to you several times.

For some reason you have taken this far too seriously. I'm tempted to put a wee joke in here but I don't think you'd get it.

You are a very strange individual who is wilfully trying to misunderstand me at every turn.

I hope you feel less angry soon

Graphista · 09/07/2018 01:59

Nogym - do you not get though even slightly that your perspective is skewed precisely BECAUSE you're English "as far back as possible" neither you nor any living member
of your family has experienced prejudice as a member of a nationality seen as lesser?

If you have non-English British friends I strongly suggest you talk to them about how they feel about England as a nation and in how it's treated their nation - you might well be in for a shock though.

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 02:00

*howfar well I have, lots.

Men being sexist against women isn't a generalisation, its proven time and again. Unless you are denying sexism exists*

Oh my fucking god

Okay time and again it's been shown

AlliKaneErikson · 09/07/2018 02:00

I’m Welsh but I’m supporting England too (I’m a Spurs fan and half of the England team are Spurs players) and always have
.
However, many people feel differently. Haven’t read the whole thread so I don’t know if anyone’s already said this; there was a meme last week on social media along the lines of Q)’Why are you supporting Colombia and not England?’ A) because to my knowledge, no Colombian person has ever called me a Sheepshagger. To be fair, when I was in uni in Wales myself and other Welsh people did have a lot of ‘banter’ in his vein from English people!

Graphista · 09/07/2018 02:01

I too have come across sexist men using the "larger brain" argument. Mainly older men but yes.

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 02:01

Sorry posted too soon.

Hooliganism has also been proven time and again. Doesn't make it representative of all the English!

Jog on and pick on someone else now 🤣

GunpowderGelatine · 09/07/2018 02:05

How has "hoologanism" been "proven"?

You made a pretty bold claim, don't moan now that someone challenged you on it.

GunpowderGelatine · 09/07/2018 02:07

I hope you feel less angry soon

I'm not angry, I'm confused someone who is so very dim can feel superior to anyone.

I hope you feel less deluded soon.

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 02:09

Sorry, pedant. I'll rephrase.

It has been proven time and again that English football fans can't behave appropriately. This doesn't mean it is representative of all English people.

I wasn't 'challenged' I was nit picked at by someone who deliberately and wilfully misread posts and resorted to name calling.

KittyWindbag · 09/07/2018 02:28

I’m English but I live abroad.

For years I couldn’t fully support the England team as they were such an unlikeable bunch of arrogant overpaid twats. We finally have a team and manager who I feel proud of and I think most sensible brits feel the same way.

I’m mortified by the portion of the country who think messing with IKEA, jumping up and down on ambulances (for fucks sake) and generally behaving in dick-swinging, aggressive ways over a football game is ok.

I’m also mortified that people think we are, on the whole, like this. But then English people need to have a good hard at look at themselves if they question it. I think Brexit has turned everything up to 11 and made us look a whole lot worse. Every time I return to the uk or watch any news-based tv show from home I am startled by the general tone of the national mood. As a nation We currently look like drunkards swinging for a fight at last orders. It’s nice we are doing well in the World Cup because it momentarily takes away from the fact we, as a country, are shitting ourselves to death in the corner.

ThanksForAllTheFish · 09/07/2018 03:01

For me honestly I’m hoping England don’t win. I think it would be insufferable if they do. Every bloody football match of every World Cup ever in living memory the presenters have to mention 1966. (I don’t follow football but DH watches it and I sort of watch it as background noise/tv)

If they still go on, and on, and on, and on, and on about winning it 60 odd years ago then I can only just imagine how much more they would go on about winning it this time.

I don’t hate England or English people at all. I will actually be in England next week for a holiday - I just find it’s a little OTT with the whole footballs coming home/ remember that time we won 60 years ago.

Koalablue · 09/07/2018 03:09

I find the Aussies have a real chip on their shoulder about us
Thats putting it mildly ;)

Bouledeneige · 09/07/2018 03:14

This is all really over stated. Whole countries don't hate England any more than the whole of England hates France or Argentina or Germany. I'm on holiday in Central America and caught the games surrounded by Spanish people. Most very respectful to us as we watched and I noticed cheers for England's goals as much as any cheers (hardly) for our opponents.

Some people don't like England, (I'd prefer to support Team GB) but to be fair most people don't care - we just don't matter that much to the rest of the world. Or not as much as their own team and national pride matters to them.

Most countries have a bit of a beef with their neighbours - in Scandinavia, France v Belgium, the US v Canada or Mexico, Australia v New Zealand. And colonialism didn't help.

But my Aussie mates are pretty honest that despite them talking about whinging Poms they tend to whinge way more.

It's only a game. Let's just enjoy!

HouseOfGoldandBones · 09/07/2018 03:19

It's this "type" of nonsense that gets people's backs up. Tweeted by Lord Digby Jones.

*ATTENTION! WANTED! A “Good Luck England” message from Nicola Sturgeon. Noteable by its absence. Given England pays her wages (& their NHS, Education & Police Force come to think of it) you’d have thought that she’d be grateful enough to thank the Paymaster.

WickedLazy · 09/07/2018 03:25

I haven't rtft yet, but I've been seeing a lot of hatred for English fans on my fb, (I'm Northern Irish), but only because so many videos are emerging of English fans going nuts and being disrespectful thugs yet again. They've taken to throwing pint glasses into crowds of people now? And I've seen a lot of piss taking about how terrified of the Russians they are, because the Russians are actually hard, and not just drunk eejits wrecking the place for a laugh. Apparently the fans cause trouble most places they go? In contrast to the Irish and Northern Irish who also go overboard with drink, but with them it's all about the craic not mindless destruction and violence.

Zippetydoodahzippetyay · 09/07/2018 03:48

Aussie here. Me and most people I know genuinely love England. I know there are some awful English people (e.g. the 'chav' who abused me outside a club because he didn't like my shoes) just as there are some awful Aussies. In my travels though, I think 99% of the English people I met or stayed with were kind, interesting, generous people.

I assume much of the hatred people refer to has a connection to England's colonial past, and without intending to disregard the horrors experienced by many as a result of that, one has to consider the context of the time. England was certainly not the only nation to colonise other places.

schoty77 · 09/07/2018 04:01

I'm in New Zealand. I don't think we 'hate' England, most people here can trace their family back to the UK in only two or three generations. Yes, there's colonialism and war in our shared history, but I think most would agree no one alive is responsible for that or advocating to see it happen again. Society has advanced, times have changed, let's be mates.

England football fans do have a bit of a reputation though. Just saw on the news this morning clips of them trashing buses and ambulances?! But we're not uneducated, we don't think that's a reflection on the whole country anymore than those brilliant Jeremy Kyle guests Grin. Just a few that have had a few..Wine

InionEile · 09/07/2018 04:42

Everyone loves an underdog - and England is the opposite of an underdog. The country wins things in sports and culture all the time and can on occasion be insufferably smug about that. And unfortunately the English media also have a habit of claiming as their own the successes of English-speaking people who are not English - Andy Murray, Saoirse Ronan, Michael Fassbender etc.

Then you add in the long history of cultural imperialism and it's no wonder people don't cheer for England. Cultural imperialism is not from 100 years ago but is still happening today. It's what allows an English person to travel anywhere in the world, safe in the knowledge that everyone knows what they're talking about when they reference English TV, films, books etc whereas the rest of us have to laboriously explain ourselves to English people all the time e.g. as an Irish person when I'm asked whether I'm 'from the North or the South' Ans: can't you tell from my accent??!? I can easily tell the difference between a Mancunian and a Londoner but it seems English people can't distinguish between a Corkman and a guy from Belfast. That is one tiny example of cultural imperialism. Soccer is another aspect of it.

And then there is the simple fact that the fans act like assholes and get horribly drunk when they're abroad...

Sorry. The truth might hurt but you did ask...

If it makes you feel better, a lot of Americans here cheer for England in soccer because they a.) have no clue how annoying you are Grin and b.) think that you're some little cute country with queens and fairies and hobbits so isn't it sweet that you guys have your own little football game and look so cute in your red and white soccer gear, adorable! And they LOVE those accents!

DeltaG · 09/07/2018 04:45

@Hamiltoes

You're talking absolute tripe. I'm English and live abroad, have done for more than half of my adult life. Currently in Europe but also various other countries in Asia and elsewhere. I'm married to a foreigner. In my experience, I've noted the following;

First thing is that non-British people are rarely very aware if the country distinctions with the UK and consider us as one

Secondly, the rest of the world does not hate England/ the UK (see point above). Most people are sufficiently intelligent to know that all countries have undesirable aspects of their histories and do not hold the people alive today responsible for the sins of their ancestors. Of course there are always a few who use this as a convenient shield for their own xenophobia, but everyone sees through it.

Thirdly, nobody denies the disgraceful behaviour of a minority of England football fans, who continually make themselves look like utter twats at home or abroad.

nNina22 · 09/07/2018 05:03

Graphista
So you don’t think there are any people who are desperate to come and live in England?

StopCloudSeeding · 09/07/2018 05:16

Have not read the thread but I have to say I love being English! Love it I am so lucky to live in an area that is still predominately English. People smile at each other regularly, chat about the weather, give way in their vehicles, wave to one another in passing, have actual eye contact!
There are comments about colonialism, well what about French and Spanish history? Why should we be made to feel guilty?
We still have the commonwealth and those countries have elected to stay within the commonwealth!

It's fashionable to knock the English But I've had enough of it. I'm proud of my heritage and as much as I love it I also appreciate the Welsh, the Irish and the Scottish and all their efforts to preserve their own cultural identities because IMO that is real diversity.