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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Teacher attitude

177 replies

grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 18:30

Have name changed for this as potentially a bit goady.

Read a few comments today about teachers wanting an 'easy' ride at work so looking at supply, for example. Also saw a comment about going back to teaching a couple of days for 'pin money' basically.

AIBU to think that this isn't the attitude you'd want in a teacher either as a colleague or as a parent?

I get that it's a hard and demanding job but is it one you could or should do half heartedly? Does hoping to go on supply imply a half hearted effort or is it just a defence mechanism.

Should note btw that I'm in Scotland and we don't appear jut now to have the same level of bullshit that our English colleagues have at the moment.

OP posts:
NCPuffin · 02/07/2018 19:05

Haven't RTFT, but it sounds a lot like you're implying that not only are teachers not supposed to complain about the insane workload and crap pay, but if they don't actively embrace this or seek more sustainable ways of doing their job, they must by definition be unsuitable for the job. I am trying not to swear at you, but the expression "with friends like that, who needs enemies" comes to mind... Can't believe a fellow teacher is coming out with this!

SumerisIcumenin · 02/07/2018 19:05

Name-changed because it’s a bit goady and she wants to slither back into her lair and pretend it wasn’t her thread?

spanishwife · 02/07/2018 19:05

Supply isnt the easier option, it just cuts out a lot of the bullshit e.g. marking, lesson planning, crap meetings, assemblies etc etc, If you can afford to do it.. why the hell not?!

I work from home on flexible hours - my job is still hard, I still give it my all, or do you think I am lazy OP?

spanishwife · 02/07/2018 19:06

@brexitwife
All the supply teachers I’ve talked to are happy to be able to just concentrate on TEACHING and teaching well rather than jumping through hoops
EXACTLY THIS

Thesearepearls · 02/07/2018 19:06

One thing that might be helpful in all this is introducing effective feedback loops for teachers. I do not work in education but as a parent it seems to me that there is no effective feedback loop. It seems to me that poor/indifferent/negligent teachers can get by whilst good/outstanding/inspirational teachers are not properly rewarded.

Maybe it would be useful to introduce a scheme of parent feedback on teachers. It's just a thought.

BrexitWife · 02/07/2018 19:07

Totally understand your fatigue and sympathise thanks but as a professional and a parent it's an attitude I find upsetting.
Then have a go at ofsted and the government rather than the teachers who have given their best and have totally burnt out doing so.

Original poster
grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 19:07

F hell... okay. Clearly I haven't made myself clear. You're right I'm attacking all prt time teachers or teachers who want to be human and have lives. 👍🏻

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 02/07/2018 19:08

parent feedback on teachers

Judging by MN, parents do not hold back from providing feedback about teachers.

ProfessorMoody · 02/07/2018 19:08

The hours a teacher works and their attitude to teaching are two different entities. They cannot be compared.

There are many full-time teachers who are very half-hearted. There are supply teachers who work supply for MANY reasons but make more of an effort.

I mentioned your intelligence because the two can't be connected and I can't see how you can't see that.

Labradoodliedoodoo · 02/07/2018 19:08

Supply isn’t t run easy opinion. Supply is the flexible option which suits some with other things in their lives. The supply teachers I know do very engaging things so on non working days - boating, outdoor pursuit, art.

PurpleDaisies · 02/07/2018 19:08

Maybe it would be useful to introduce a scheme of parent feedback on teachers.

Crap idea. Whether parents like you or not often has no correlation with whether you’re a good teacher or not.

ColoursOfRain · 02/07/2018 19:09

I think we have our wires crossed. Supply teachers in my school are expected to do all that.

I hope you pay them to scale, then. And pay holiday pay. And sick pay.

Original poster
grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 19:10

I work in Scotland. Ofsted are nothing to do with me. I'm attempting to have a conversation on an Internet forum. I'm attacking no one. Clearly not allowed to question the motives or attitudes of SOME teachers. That's fine.

OP posts:
Thesearepearls · 02/07/2018 19:10

noblegiraffe Is that a thought-through position? How do teachers get assessed? Do they get assessed by results? How does it work?

PurpleDaisies · 02/07/2018 19:11

Supply isn’t t run easy opinion. Supply is the flexible option which suits some with other things in their lives

This is spot on, and I’d add the option that suits people who don’t want teaching to become their entire life. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a life outside work, whether that involves doing exciting things or just enjoying having time off.

SumerisIcumenin · 02/07/2018 19:11

Then they’ll just go on supply, Thesearepearls.
The problem is retaining ft staff, and money or a shiny star from parents isn’t tackling the fundamental dysfunctions at the heart of the English education system. Every school has a complaints procedure and pupil voice and parental questionnaires. Governors get their sixpenth too. You get your say.

Original poster
grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 19:11

I hope you pay them to scale, then. And pay holiday pay. And sick pay.

Holiday pay is accrued through days worked, scale yes, sick pay yes and after two years continuous employment then rights are awarded basically meaning conditions much the same as a permanent staff member.

OP posts:
Knittedfairies · 02/07/2018 19:11

Supply teaching can have it’s moments; a teacher in one school told me to go and eat my lunch in my car as there wasn’t enough space in the staff room for the ‘real’ teachers. That was the word she used. I finished my stint there but would never go back.

Thesearepearls · 02/07/2018 19:12

Purpledaisies I have quite a good idea who are the good teachers and who are not in both my DC's schools

I hope you are not feeling nervous about a parental feedback loop. There's no need. IME parents only really start objecting when there's a seriously bad teacher.

BrexitWife · 02/07/2018 19:13

Maybe it would be useful to introduce a scheme of parent feedback on teachers

I’m wondering, how is a parent going to evaluate a teacher when they are never in the classroom? By what the chid is saying?
So little Johnny is upset that the teacher didn’t allow him to do xxx so cleariynthis is a bad teacher?
Or little Amy isn’t getting a good level at the end the Y5 but it’s the teacher who is bad. Never mind that the parent is allowing her to stay up till midnight so she is too tired to be able to work? Or she has some SN that the parent doesn’t what to be investigated. Or that she is given responsibilities she shouldn’t have etc etc.

As a parent, I have often found that I thought some teachers were better than others. But I also appreciate that this is my opinion as an outsider for my little darling and might well not be representative at all of what the teacher is actually doing.
My dcs had two teachers who were outstanding and they were easy to spot. One who was extremely bad but is suspect I would have been told it was me the issue.
Te others? No way I could have done any ‘evaluation’

whathaveiforgottentoday · 02/07/2018 19:13

Also saw a comment about going back to teaching a couple of days for 'pin money' basically.

Actually, you have criticised part time. I know plenty of older teachers who work part time, who have paid off their mortgage, kids grown up who are just working for pin money (or in my good friends case - to pay for lovely holidays). However, that doesn't mean they take their job any less seriously. Your post was goady and rude.

Original poster
grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 19:16

mentioned your intelligence because the two can't be connected and I can't see how you can't see that.

Yet you happily compare a retail job to teaching as if they are the same. You are defensive and rude and tbh I'm not going to engage with you further. You still haven't even mentioned your shitty comment about 'difficult' classes but are happy to nitpick at me.

I am aware that full time staff can be half hearted. My post was because I read elsewhere on here today about teachers going on supply or part time because they don't love the job and are looking for an easy option. As a parent and a teacher I don't really think thats okay.

I'm not talking about commutes part timers / supply I'm taking about those looking for an easy life.

The amount of teachers on this thread claiming they cannot understand or have never encountered this 'teacher type' are clearly very lucky to be working with such a dedicated bunch!

OP posts:
SumerisIcumenin · 02/07/2018 19:16

You are criticising teachers in a different country for saying supply is an easier option, and extrapolating that it is harmful to children. Yes, it’s a defensive move against the current system. We are also defending our position against you, and you suspected that might happen.
So, how long have you been teaching, are you juggling family at the same time and have you reflected on why your analysis has irritated several teachers?

Thesearepearls · 02/07/2018 19:16

My dcs had two teachers who were outstanding and they were easy to spot. One who was extremely bad but is suspect I would have been told it was me the issue.

Did you not just prove my point? How were the outstanding teachers easy to spot? How was the extremely bad teacher easy to spot?

See I think really bad teachers can get away with it for years. And I think really brilliant teachers are not recognised properly. What do you suggest to address this?

Original poster
grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 19:17

God. Have not criticised part time have criticised those who go part time thinking it makes a difficult job easier.

OP posts:
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