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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teacher attitude

177 replies

grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 18:30

Have name changed for this as potentially a bit goady.

Read a few comments today about teachers wanting an 'easy' ride at work so looking at supply, for example. Also saw a comment about going back to teaching a couple of days for 'pin money' basically.

AIBU to think that this isn't the attitude you'd want in a teacher either as a colleague or as a parent?

I get that it's a hard and demanding job but is it one you could or should do half heartedly? Does hoping to go on supply imply a half hearted effort or is it just a defence mechanism.

Should note btw that I'm in Scotland and we don't appear jut now to have the same level of bullshit that our English colleagues have at the moment.

OP posts:
SumerisIcumenin · 02/07/2018 18:51

I’m a happy supply teacher in England after decades of ft class teaching in primary. Scotland is a different system. If you didn’t want us to leave, you shouldn’t have ignored all the warnings and advice about an unsustainable workload, ever-changing targets and initiatives, triple marking and the insanity that enables schools to run on fear and guilt like something from Monsters Inc.
Do the job, teach with enthusiasm, knowledge and and creativity, go home. No politics and paperwork and crap. I work 5 days a week for 2/3 of the salary and I get weekends, evenings and holidays carefree.
But you are teaching in a different country, and so perhaps you don’t fully understand.

ChaffyMcChaff · 02/07/2018 18:51

I'm a teacher in England OP. A very experienced one of 27 years in the job (I'm 53). I would give it up in a heartbeat if I could find another job that I could afford to keep everything afloat on..and I don't mean living 'in style' at all. I'm now single, having gone through a very terrible divorce some years back that left me financially crippled (in huge debt...my ex'D'H was a gambler and basically we lost everything because of joint liability!). So I had to start again. From scratch, with nothing but half his debt (my half was 22k!!) Teaching here is just awful right now, I'm shattered, working upwards of 70 hours a week with management who just pile on the crap and don't care about staff wellbeing at all (despite their claims outwardly to visitors that they do...it's nauseating, when we've received copious demanding emails right through the weekend, when we are 'supposedly' not supposed to!).

If I could, I would do something else...but what? At my age, with only teaching as my skill? I can't afford to retrain. I can't afford to do supply...that would cut my salary into less than half and isn't guaranteed anyway! It's a golden handcuff, unless you are one of the 'lucky' ones who has a supporting partner who can shoulder the financial downsize if you do quit. I applaud those who can and do. It's NOT because of the children that teachers are leaving...it's because of the stress imposed from elsewhere. My class have no idea how I feel...they only see how much I care about them.

Good to hear it's not quite as dire in Scotland though 💐

Amanduh · 02/07/2018 18:52

How on earth can supplies do all that? Unless you’re talking about long term supply? Confused

Notevilstepmother · 02/07/2018 18:52

I’m on supply. It is an easier option, I don’t have to sit through boring meetings and tedious training sessions. I don’t have to go to parents evenings (unless I choose to) I can take a random day off for a medical appointment or have a cheap term time holiday. I do what I can in the way of planning and marking during school hours and then I go home. If it’s not done, tough.

Is this the best thing for the children? Maybe not, but as their usual teacher like so many others is off with stress due to being expected to do the impossible and then told it’s not good enough, it’s the best that’s on offer.

Teaching in England is a mugs game at the moment. Never ending nonsense that is box ticking to please our rich overlords who we foolishly sold off our schools to. Children reduced to statistical groups and targets. Endless fast track idiots walking in and out of our lessons telling us we are doing it wrong when I’ve seen their attempts at teaching and it’s not good. Marking in all manner of different colours and different fashions for feedback. Stuff that for a game. I turn up in the morning, do my best for the children in front of me and then I go home.

Sleepyblueocean · 02/07/2018 18:52

You sound like you are jealous of those who can choose to work part time.

grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 18:53

It was your comment about 'difficult' classes I took issue with professor. And I've explained upthread that I don't feel testing as you describe is effective either. I am fan of tracking progress and formative assessment to offer students guidance.

I am intelligent enough Smile and there really is noneed to be so rude. This just a conversation and I have attacked nobody. I am sorry for your past difficulties and I seem to have hit a nerve! Not my intention obviously.

OP posts:
Haggisfish · 02/07/2018 18:54

Teaching in Scotland and England are two very different beasts in terms of conditions and expectations on staff.

zeeboo · 02/07/2018 18:55

Where have you got it from that they are being halfhearted? Flexible working with no work to take home and working for 'pin money' meaning - not working for a salary capable of supporting yourself or family; neither of those two things say anything about how the person in post will teach or what their commitment is.
I think your line of thinking is really bizarre and fairly insulting.

grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 18:55

You sound like you are jealous of those who can choose to work part time.

Not at all! And absolutely I think many great teachers can and do work part time. My issue is more with those who don't accept that teaching is a difficult job and the. Look to go part time or supply in a hope of avoiding those difficulties. I don't believe that being part time or supply does or can do that. Still a difficult job whether you do it part time supply or full time permanent! Kids in front of you still deserve the best.

OP posts:
whathaveiforgottentoday · 02/07/2018 18:55

Why not - what is wrong for wanting a job where you can have a slightly easier time at work and actually have some time for other things in life.

You should work to live, not live to work.

that applies to teaching too.

I've been teaching for 24 years and have been part time for a few years and chosen not to take on management roles precisely as i wanted an easier life (i.e. actually be able to spend some time with my family).

SumerisIcumenin · 02/07/2018 18:56

Children may suffer, but I’m all charity-fatigued out. Not my problem.
The powers that be should have got their act together and listened to the educators instead of lying, dissembling and fantasising their way to this point.
Why do you think so many of us make a living on supply? Some schools I go to have no ft teaching staff unless they are in the first couple of years of teaching. Drop out rate after 3/5 and 10 years is ludicrous. What can one do except walk out when all attempts at changing the path of the juggernaut have failed to make the slightest impression?

grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 18:56

Again, not saying anything about or time or supply - instead I am talking about those who deliberately take one of these options in the hope of making a difficult job easier.

OP posts:
grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 18:57

Children may suffer, but I’m all charity-fatigued out. Not my problem.

This is exactly what I mean. Totally understand your fatigue and sympathise Thanks but as a professional and a parent it's an attitude I find upsetting.

OP posts:
grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 18:59

Teaching in Scotland and England are two very different beasts in terms of conditions and expectations on staff.

It really does sound like it. I thought cfe was a pain but I should maybe be counting my lucky chickens!

OP posts:
ScipioAfricanus · 02/07/2018 18:59

I do part time as I couldn’t manage full time once I had my child. I get paid less and I still give it my all. In fact I’m stopping again as even part time takes all my energy and time and is paid a pittance with no career progression.

In a few years people will be grateful that anyone with a levels is teaching a class, let alone a degree, let alone a teaching qualification and skill, let alone compassion and a love of the job.

SumerisIcumenin · 02/07/2018 18:59

Come and teach in England for a year and rescue the poor lambkins from indifferent clock watchers then. At the end of a year, you might have more understanding of the problem you are pontificating about.

ScipioAfricanus · 02/07/2018 19:00

I do deliver the best to the pupils, I just do it three days a week not five. You do sound goody minding people trying to cope.

ScipioAfricanus · 02/07/2018 19:01

goady. Though you also seem to think you’re a goody and the rest of us baddies!

whathaveiforgottentoday · 02/07/2018 19:01

Can I ask how long you have been teaching OP?

spanishwife · 02/07/2018 19:02

I think teachers have had it so tough, that they can only give a few days a week at full energy. They don't have 5 days in them.

I've seen this from experience with a close family member who is full of energy, a tough cookie and was super passionate about teaching. Has semi-retired and now does supply here and there.

They couldn't deal with constant pressure of grades being the only marker of success (in a v. tough school), senior management tearing them down rather than showing support, crazy long hours (think all school day, then 5+ hours at night at head of dept level), working in school holidays to give struggling students extra sessions. On top of that, being yelled at and threatened by kids AND parents, no gratitude from school (not essential in any job, but difficult to do well without any praise when you consistently work your bum off).

It's just too much, people are burning out. Don't judge teachers who are battling everything to get your kids an education, judge the system.

grumpyteacher1 · 02/07/2018 19:03

Have said many times I'm not talking about part time staff trying their best. Please read what I am actually writing.

OP posts:
viques · 02/07/2018 19:03

I did supply for a while and in some schools , with some classes it WAS an easier option, but only if the school was decently resourced, the classroom organised, the children reasonably pleasant and you weren't their tenth supply teacher in three weeks! It could be great if you were organised and prepared for anything. If it wasn't then it could be hell, no resources, no organisation, unfriendly colleagues, only one class ever reduced me to tears , but at home, not in front of them though.

I worked in settings I would never have normally worked in, like schools for children with extreme disabilities and nursery schools ,and though they weren't for me I loved the experience .

I usually left the classroom tidier than I found it, wrote copious records of what I had taught, marked work properly , still managed to leave at a decent time, always got asked back , and often got offered jobs!

The thing that makes teaching such a crap job is the constant unrealistic pressure. i went into supply after being driven to distraction by a particularly awful head, I wanted to leave teaching for ever, but what doing supply taught me was that I actually enjoyed teaching, being with the kids etc, so I eventually, by accident, found a proper teaching job that meant I could use my skills but craftily managed(for a long time, but they got me in the end) not to get caught up in too much of the madness. I stayed in teaching for nearly 20years after I decided to leave, so thanks supply teaching, you gave me back my career.

Aeroflotgirl · 02/07/2018 19:04

Yabvvvu, teachers are human being who have family and lives, like any other worker, they might not be able to work full time due to health or family comitments. As long as they do their job to the best of their ability, I don't care.

ScipioAfricanus · 02/07/2018 19:04

I’ve read what you’re writing. And you say people who go part time to make it easier aren’t teaching whole heartedly in your opinion. Perhaps you need to explain yourself more clearly.

BrexitWife · 02/07/2018 19:04

It is an easier option,p. They can do their job and go back home.
As a full time teacher, they also have to attend meetings, have to deal with a huge pressure to achieve xxx level for the dcs, are asked to prepare x, y and z so it looks good for an ofsted visit.

All the supply teachers I’ve talked to are happy to be able to just concentrate on TEACHING and teaching well rather than jumping through hoops.

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