What type of woman believes this behaviour is ok?

[Tinyhandprintseverywhere]

I've been having an absolute nightmare weekend with exdp, it's his weekend to have the dcs and as usual he hasn't turned up as he is more interested in spending time with his friends and new gf.

So on Friday morning I called to remind him that he needs to collect ds from his club, as I would be working and wouldn't be able to do it. As soon as he answered he was being vile so I knew from then he wouldn't be having themp, so I hung up and arranged for a friend to collect him for me.

On my way to work in the evening I called him again to ask about the maintenance he was meant to put in my account but didn't,
He told me he would drop it at his mums and I would have to collect it there.
I told him I couldn't do that which resulted in a screaming match, he was basically calling me a stupid woman and every other name under the sun, all the while this is happening I can hear his gf laughing in the background, as if it's all a big joke to her.

Anyway it ended with him saying he would collect the dcs Saturday morning which of course he didn't so I took them out instead, he's then called me @3pm wanting to collect them I told him I was out.

I then started receiving txts telling me I'm playing games, then again today he calls me ranting down the phone blaming me for the way the situation is, again with his gf in the background telling me to get off the phone, we've both exchanged some horrible messages to each other aswell today which totally drains me.

Now my question is how as a woman can you sit there and listen to someone verbally abusing the mother of his children, knowing he hasn't seen them since fathers day and laugh?
I'm sure in the very near future he will want to have the dcs around her so he can play disney dad and I feel very uncomfortable with them being around both of them.

I always text him, as he's a liar so I like to have proof of what both of us have said, especially when it comes to contact, but he hates it and usually ignores me for days at a time which he knows frustrates me.

I had a similar situation with my ex. I also heard his gf at the time yelling abuse and swearing at me when I was on the phone with him. I wrote him a big long text writing word for word what I heard her screaming, why it was inappropriate and how it impacts co-parenting and my concerns about not wanting anyone to get in the way of his relationship with our dd. While texting does provide written proof of conversations sometimes a phone conversation is necessary. I understand why sometimes you feel it's necessary to phone rather than text. You are in a tough situation. It doesn't sound like he is willing to step up as a dad. Unlike my ex who ended up putting our dd first and soon after broke up with the gf who tried to interfere and control his co-parenting relationship with me. I don't ring him every day and the one or two times he or I rings p.w. he predominantly talks to our dd. Although we discuss parenting things from time to time. It has taken a massive effort and compromise to get where we are. I remember earlier on after we separated he told our dd she could ring anytime. The first time she asked me to ring daddy he answered the phone snapping 'what do you want.' She ran into her bedroom crying. I immediately said to him (phone was on loud speaker) that our dd heard him say that and she is upset crying. I reminded him that he said that she could ring him anytime and she had asked me to ring you. He felt really bad and never did it again. He could be a really abusive prick to me that's why I left him. I've constantly driven it home that our dd loves us both and it will hurt her if we aren't nice to each other. I've told him my only concern is for our dd's well-being and challenged him to put her well-being first or bugger off. He stepped up. I hope your ex realizes he is being an unreliable, immature person who needs to put his children first. That may never happen but I hope it does.

The question is not how the other woman sits and laughs at you. Your exP is a weak man playing games with two women. If he was smart, he would be using a 'fond father' act to impress the GF. The GF will eventually get her turn on the receiving end of what he is now dishing out to you. Accept that he is the main problem here, and look out for your own best interests and those of your children.

Take him to court, get a visitation agreement and if he doesn't comply, go back with a motion for contempt of court.

After reading through your post and feeling sympathetic about your situation I was surprised to get to the end and realise your gripe and original question is about his girlfriend!!

He's the one causing you all these problems. Whether she's egging him on or not is not the point...its coming from him.

I think it's a fair question. Considering how many women are victims of domestic violence, men abusing them, threatening to kill them and far too many women murdered by abusive men. Why the the hell should we not question why some women choose to engage in behavior that supports a man abusing his ex. With such a high rate of women being victims of dv we should be standing up for women being treated abusively and stand by women to be treated with dignity and respect. Women who act like Op's exp's gf are part of the fucking problem. We should be question why some women metaphorically spit on other women and kick them when they're down.

Time to accept that your Ex is an arsehole. Document everything, if he won’t commit to regular contact, stop contact (stating why in writing). Inform CMS and disengage from this wanker. Let him take you to court, he won’t of course because he’s an arsehole. Spend your energy in supporting your children’s MH by helping lower their expectations of him. They will take their cue from you, as to what is acceptable behaviour.

Detach, detach, detach and don’t entertain communication that isn’t written.

chocolate that's akin to saying women are accountable for abhorrent male behaviour! That's a dangerous road and I don't think it's Ok! He could be telling her anything!

I would be going no contact with them and going through a court. Would change my number so they no longer had it, block on social media and everything I could. Force him to have to go to a contact centre, if he bothers. Force him to pay for his children via the court.

Make it difficult for him. Make it so that you have proof for your children, no one else, that he can't be bothered. They will abandon him when older and after all the women walk away, he'll be left with no one as well.

Pity him really. He's a sad individual that will end up alone. But don't speak to him anymore either.

Another one who says your anger in the OP is misdirected. Don’t forget how charming and credible these useless fuckbadgers are. He would’ve spun her a sorry story that makes out you were the irrational one, the one that who was impossible to live with and he was the poor one who tried to persevere through the relationship.

Funnily enough, mine and my STBXHs first argument was over this; I was present when he took a call from his XW and after the call he was so awful the way he spoke about her ‘cunt this, psycho that’ that it horrified me to hear anyone talk about a person they’d had a child with. That’s when the ‘wooooooe is meeeeeee’ story came out. Like a gullible little idiot I believed him. Like a PP said at the start of the thread; she’ll learn, they always do.

When dealing with him, inertia. Give him nothing, record everything. If he wants you to collect CM from his mothers, then do it. Not that I’m saying you are BU because of course, you’re not. Go with his unreasonable demands now to show how reasonable you are being wrt access etc. Get your court order, sit it out for your CMS payment directly into the bank and then let him fuck it up. Give the fuckwit enough rope that he’ll hang himself then use it to get this PoS out of yours and your kids life for good. Good luck x

TooFew chocolate that's akin to saying women are accountable for abhorrent male behaviour!

No it it is not. Men who abuse are responsible for their abusive behavior. Women who abuse are responsible for their abusive behavior. Women who bully, treat badly, manipulate, play games with or mock women who are being abused by a man are responsible for their bullying, manipulative, game playing, mocking behavior. Her ex is not responsible for his gf choosing to laugh. She is responsible for mocking the Op and she is responsible for choosing to join in on the abuse he was dishing out on her. If he one day turns around and starts abusing his gf I would not blame her for his abusive behavior. When a person is being abused they don't need other people joining in on the abuse. That's not helping the victim, it's helping the perpetrator. Anyone regardless of gender who joins in with abusive behavior in any way is adding to the problem. And damn right women should be supporting women who are being abused instead of joining in and adding to the problem.

It's good to hear it from that perspective KittyVon it's easy to judge when you don't know what's being said/done behind closed doors. He sounds vile.

So, the drip feed states that your ex threatened to beat you up. However, rather than be concerned about that, you are more concerned about the moral stance of his GF? I think your priorities are totally in the wrong place. If it were me, I would've reported him to the Police. Forget about her.

Too add though, I never joined in with his abuse and at the start kept pulling him up on his vileness but just gave up in the end and stayed silent. I always found my STBXH ok, was pleasant when I saw her, always thanked me for helping out with DSD, but to him it was because SHE was the charming psychopath and the master manipulator and how she couldn’t be trusted. Fucking laughable now!

STBXH’s ex wife ok, not him ok btw! Too early for me 😂

It’s not for you to go to court for contact. You simply stop contact and let him take you to court. Stop engaging him and let him contact you. Don’t get into abusive discussions as your feeding into this and after 5yrs it’s time for you to move on. Block his number on your phone and advise you will want all communication via email. If there is any abuse that mode of communication will stop also and he can communicate via a solicitor. Your investing your energy in an ass who has seen his DC 4 times in 7mths. Do his DC even want to see him? My DF did this to me as a DC and it was emotionally damaging tbh.

Yeah you are angry with the wrong person

Fgs !!! Why do people keep advising parents with care to 'go to court' ?? It's complete bollocks !

There is NO gain or point in going to court if the children live with you. A court order cannot force a father to see his children. It sets out when you have to make them 'available'. Applying for a CAO will tie you to being 'available ' the whole of every other weekend should he deign to rock up but not turning up does NOT mean a breach. The 'order' is on you not him. Why would you want an order against yourself?
Unless you have money to burn, why are you going to a solicitor? . The advantage is ALL yours. YOU live with your children, there is NOTHING to arrange.
The hoops to jump through and ALL the cost are for your partner to address. It is he that wants to see them. Not you.
He needs to make the application (£215) - he has to arrange mediation (time and more money) before he can get a court date. (Or an exemption signed if mediation inappropriate due to DV. )
You just have to say NO.
No lawyers,
No fees,
No forms.
Just 'No'
You aren't seeing the children. End of.

Meanwhile hassle the CMS as he will use money as a bargaining chip.

ivechangedmyusername agree 100%.

First of all can I just point out that I am not blaming the girlfriend in any way for his behaviour, he would be like that in front of her or behind her back.
As in a pp I explained that I had never been in a situation like that before, where someone is laughing at what he is saying.

It also wasn't a massive drip feed telling you that he threatened to beat me up, it clearly states in my op that he was being abusive, I just didn't feel the need to write word for word what was said.
If you believe that I am minimising what he said then you are very much mistaken, however there isn't much I can do about it, yes I can call the police and get it logged but are they going to come and arrest him for it? No they won't.

My focus has always been my dcs and to try and work with exdp for a better co-parenting relationship, I know that he doesn't want to step up but legally I can't stop him from seeing the dcs.
He will never take me to court and will choose to walk away from them if I did stop contact, but for now my dcs still want to see him and be in contact with him, therefore i have to do what they need be to do for them.

*me to do for them, until they see what he is like and stop contact for themselves.

He sounds awful OP.

Have you ever heard of the just world hypothesis ? It’s a sort of psychological defense we use when processing accidents, tragedies and other events, particularly when we can relate to the victim.

In order to distance ourselves from the knowledge that something terrible could happen to us, we have this tendency to believe that bad things happen to bad people and we’ll rake over the evidence to find something to support that hypothesis to put our mind at ease.

Victim blaming gets called out on MN but irl it’s often our first protective instinct to try and figure out what the victim did (that I don’t do) that makes him/her a target.

My guess is that she’s not viewing you as equivalent to you (and therefore herself as a potential victim) but as someone different to her. And there’s a little rush of superiority from that; he treats her nicely because she’s better than you. If a nasty man like he is treats her well it must be a self esteem boost.

Women with low self esteem limit their comparisons to a small group, eg mistresses feel superior to wives, but don’t compete with the wider world of women for decent men.

Another term psychologists use is cognitive dissonance which explores the mental gymnastics people do when the evidence contradicts their world view. Othering you, in this case by laughing at you, helps her to maintain the illusion that this relationship is ok.

If you have sustained psychological damage as a child, or as an adult (for instance in an emotionally abusive relationship), you aren’t starting from the point of asking is this man worthy of me?, instead you’re vulnerable to performing mental gymnastics to prove that you’re worthy of him.

I know you’re in an awful situation having to deal with this vile man, but I bet you can’t even imagine being someone who’s standards are so low, that she’d be attracted to the kind of scum the rest of us would wipe off our shoes?

It’s why the Freedom Programmer is so important because it helps break down the tangled processes that make women vulnerable to horrible men.

On my way to work in the evening I called him again to ask about the maintenance

Why are you trying to organise maintenance on your way to work? You need to discuss something like this when you are both calm and have time. He even said he would make it available it but you declined to go and pick it up. It comes across that you have allowed him to wind you up all day and in fact were just 'having a go' about the money.

In a later post you say you always contact him by text so as to have proof of his responses but your action above state the opposite.

I agree with Margaret Cavendish.

You fell for him and had children with him. People don't change overnight. You may have thought it manly or heroic when he ranted at someone you both thought was being a dick. Now you are on the other side of it. You may have thought it smart when he dodged taxes or didn't pay a bill that wasn't chased or "got away with" something. Now it's the CM that he's getting away with and it's not so clever.

You say he's abusive and possibly violent and yet you are pushing for your young children to spend time with him, (presumably also with the awful GF)

You seem to be enjoying the drama, ("screaming match" ???), and want your children to see him "for what he is". That sounds as if you want them to have a horrible time with their father so that you can be proved right.

Behave in a dignified way. Maybe plan to be a 100% single parent, expect him not to bother, and take it from there. It might be better all round. And the girlfriend will probably not last.

I cannot believe you're getting flamed OP.

I know what you're trying to say. Why would anyone, man or woman, sit and listen to their DP being an abusive arsehole and think it's OK. I know I wouldn't and couldn't. Because no matter what line he's spun to her about you, she now has the evidence of her own eyes that he's an abusive arsehole.

In answer to your question, I don't know why or how she could do that. All I can think is that she's been so completely taken in by his lies that she has some sort of cognitive disconnect going on.

I do agree that you need to step back a bit and reduce contact between the two of you for your own sake. You will never win with an arsehole like this.

You and her are both doing the same thing, blaming the woman and not him.