Are these offensive words?

[user1471433387]

DH referred to a girl on TV as half caste and I said it is probably better to say mixed race. He said he would continue to use that word and doesn't see a problem. We had a similar discussion about the word coloured a few years ago. WIBU?

I think the reason I find "half caste" offensive is because of the word "caste". What do you mean by half pure?
I don't find term like mixed race/heritage or even half black/white offensive because it doesn't give the impression one is better than other.

So you're of mixed race and your DH thinks it's up to him which terms are used?! Disgusting behaviour. He's ignorant AF.

Going back to the word in the OP, DS has dual heritage friends (Anglo Asian) who do use the HC phrase, they refer to themselves as HC.
I suppose its like Kanye et al using N, isn't it? People can choose to define themselves and really don't need others to get offended on their behalf

I once used the term half-caste in my primary school classroom in the late 1990s. I used it to describe someone because it was the word my parents used and had no idea that it was offensive. A few shocked stares, some other children said it was racist, and the teacher had to explain it to me. I'd never heard 'mixed race' used before that day.

I never said half-caste again. I was horrified that I'd offended people. That said, I'm also glad that the teacher explained it to me kindly instead of telling me off and treating it as a racist incident.

I'm a little surprised that there are people today who don't know it's offensive, but it's only a problem if they're told it is but actively refuse to stop saying it.

SharpLily

I am aware of why, @Shumpalumpa, but I think you're missing the point, which is who on Earth has time to go around Googling to find out what they should be calling different races and why? Why should people have to look up the relevant term for different races regularly? Before I meet up with friends from various different races or even my own family, am I actually expected to check what racial identifier is most appropriate at the moment?

SharpLily, you said 'One good example is the NAACP - yet apparently coloured is no longer an acceptable term. Dear God, you can't win.'

That says to me that you think 'coloured' an acceptable term because it's still used within the organisation name for the NAACP. You did not say that you understand why the NAACP have chosen to keep the name as it has been for over a hundred years.

And you're being very disingenuous. You don't have to learn the names for various races. Call white people white, call black people black. There was a time when it was acceptable to call black people 'niggers'. How have you found the time to learn that it is not accptable to call black people 'niggers'? How have you found the time to find out it's not acceptable to call Pakistani people 'pakis'? If you have found the time to learn that, it should be perfectly possible for your brain to grasp why 'half-caste' i.e. half-pure is not acceptable. What are the two races that make you mixed race, SharpLily? Which side makes YOU half pure and which side makes sure half impure/dirty?

I haven't said using half-caste is acceptable. I pointed out that I stopped using it when told it was unacceptable. I don't remember ever calling people Paki instead of Pakistani. And I have learned what I have learned through people telling me but mostly in a gentler time, being told I was wrong but not having people rush to be offended and call me racist for getting it wrong.

My background is none of your business and I have never considered any of it pure or unpure, and I've never considered anyone else that way. When people comment upon my appearance, which marks me as other than white English, I don't assume they are being offensive. I find it pretty clear when someone is trying to be offensive and racist in this way and I would consider it bloody rude to jump down people's throats for getting it wrong by modern standards.

In the days when half-caste was considered a perfectly acceptable term I had no idea what the word 'caste' meant, I used it because that's what everyone said and it had no connotations of any kind to me, it was simply a statement of fact.

Equally I don't think coloured is acceptable or unacceptable, to me it has always been a statement of fact rather than a value judgement. I stopped using it when I heard (no idea how or where) that now it should be 'people of colour'. Am I right in thinking that term is now also updated? I genuinely don't know, but it's because I'm using these words to define a fact, like the sky is blue or the grass is green. I'm not throwing a weight of history behind them because I just see people as people.

My argument is not against any particular words. I don't really care what words any particular race wants to use as an identifier, but I wish everybody wouldn't be so desperate to take offence where none is meant.

It cracks me up that you get people moaning about how it's just too hard to keep up with what's "PC" nowadays when referring to terms that have been widely accepted as offensive for 40+ years

SharpLily

And I have learned what I have learned through people telling me but mostly in a gentler time, being told I was wrong but not having people rush to be offended and call me racist for getting it wrong.

The OP is mixed race and told her DP it's 'probably better to say mixed race'. That is a very gentle way of telling her DP. OP was not in a rush to be offended or calling her DP racist. What do you think would have been a better way for OP to tell her DP?

Your first post seemed to imply that people who point put that certain words are no longer acceptable are 'hipster twats', but your last post seems to be much more conciliatory. Maybe you've learnt something from this thread, SharpLily?

My background is none of your business

I'm not particularly interested in your background. But it's interesting that a mere question about your background gets your back up but other people are 'hipster twats' merely for pointing out that certain words are no longer acceptable.

A word is offensive if the listener is offended

This is bullshit. Otherwise everyone could be offended by everything. Don’t make such sweeping statements - otherwise literally every word in the English language could become offensive.

Your OH didn’t know any better, but now he does and should modify his language accordingly.

😂 I am black and have mixed raced children not racist because it’s about context just a bit old fashioned

Tell him the 1980 called and asked for their phrase back

I haven't heard anyone say 'half caste' for about 20 odd years, and even then it sounded wrong.

Anyway IMO I think 'mixed race' sounds offensive. We are all the same race, surely.

@Shumpalumpa I'm not remotely bothered about my background, I say it's none of your business because it's not relevant. It's something I don't get offended about, even if people get it wrong, because it's usually obviously out of ignorance and I don't class that as racism.

I also don't object to what the OP said to her husband, but I do object to the people on this thread immediately condemning him as racist.

But as I've repeatedly said, I object to the very modern rush to be offended. If some people choose to identify themselves as half-caste and don't offend themselves by doing so, why the hell are so many other people offended on their behalf? It's ridiculous.

My great aunt is a very inclusive woman. She's ancient but she welcomes everyone, regardless of their age, their colour, their religion, social class, sexual orientation, whatever. She treats a toilet cleaner the same way she treats royalty.She refuses to see milk bottles on the table but is pretty friendly with the local drug dealer. She will object to you if you're rude, that's about it. She also talks about wearing slacks, stores her clothes in a tallboy and goes for a shampoo and set every week - I have no idea what that is but it involves rollers. One of her many husbands was black at a time when mixed marriages were frowned upon and other family members have told me she was very brave to have done that, but if you ask her about that she's completely bemused because she didn't see it as relevant. I have also heard her refer to black people as darkies. I remember snorting with laughter - it sounded so anachronistic - and telling her that people don't really like to hear that term anymore and she looked at me, said 'what rubbish!' in total surprise, and carried on. Is she racist? I would say no because she doesn't look down on black people or see them as less than her in any way. She isn't calling anyone darkies to put them down, she merely means the colour of their skin is darker than heres - as is mine. Many people would call her racist and I hate that because I know damn well there was and is no racism in her.

There are some depressing posts on here. Of course if someone persists in using terms like "darkies" after being corrected that is racist behaviour.

It is remotely possible that soe ie. may not know that half caste and coloured are not acceptable words -if they've been living down a well for the past 20/30 years or something like that. But the problem is not accepting and changing when it's explained to them.

I'd never heard the term 'half-caste' before moving to the UK. I wasn't sure if it was an offensive term or not, but it kind of made me feel uncomfortable so I don't use it.

Is he trying to 'put you in your place'? I only asl because my XH used to use perjorative words about people of my ethnic background (ironically he is on the diversity board at his work !!) and it it was a form of control, to try to make me think I was not quite as good as him.

I would tell him plainly to cut it out because it is racist and you won't put up with it (telling you to do as I say not as I did here - hindsight is a wonderful thing !)

People used half caste in my school up until the mid-2000s at least. I didn't know it was offensive until I went to university in the late 2000s. I live in the Welsh valleys however. I think there was one mixed race boy in my 1000-person secondary school.

I'm mixed race too, I don't like the term half-caste because of what it implies. The whiter part of me is not purer than the black part of me.

"I didn't know it was offensive until I went to university in the late 2000s"

And then, presumably, you stopped using it?

Agree with pp that your dp is ignorant. My mum is in her 90s, she lives in a pretty much totally white area, (we are Irish) and has probably never met a black or mixed race person in her life. While our city has become increasingly multicultural her world has become very small, because of her increasing infirmity. She wouldn't have a clue what the correct term is, and while she would never knowingly offend anyone she certainly could do so unwittingly.
Your dp has no such excuse.

I don't think the OP's DH is automatically racist for using the term in the first place, as he simply may not realise it's an offensive term.

But surely, when you are then corrected by someone of mixed race, you take them at their word? If you insist on doing as you please despite knowing less about a subject, is that not the equivalent of mansplaining?!

White people don't get to decide which terms are acceptable to black or mixed race people. Getting it wrong once is a human error. Wilfully continuing to get it wrong, insisting that you know better, is being an arsehole.

My computer threw a fit but after my very long post about my very dear but completely dotty great aunt, I wanted to turn to the other side of the coin, my repulsive stepfather in law. He knows all the right words to use and in public he will do so, but that man is racist to his soul. He genuinely believes that black people are dishonest, are less intelligent than white people and are lesser life forms in general. If my stepsister in law were to come home with a black boyfriend, he would go berserk - mind you she never would because she grew up with him and has been indoctrinated by his disgusting views. I have nothing to do with her and as little as possible to do with him. The nature of families means we have to see him occasionally but it has been made very clear to him that if I ever hear him spout any of that disgusting shit around my daughter, he will never see her again. I'd find it very hard to to slap him, to be honest.

Who's the real racist? The one who uses the wrong words but with the best of intent, or the one with the twisted heart who knows how to make it look good in public? Surely people can see they are not the same?

@SharpLily Your stepfatherIL sounds vile. Sorry you have to put up with him.

I agree with you that somebody using the wrong words with the best of intentions is much much much preferable to the closet racist. But - the OP's DH is neither of these people. He's insisting on using words that he's been told are offensive - not just to mixed race people in general but to his own wife (not that she's more important but you would think her opinion would have an impact). So his intentions, while not necessarily evil like your SFIL, aren't exactly good either are they, IYSWIM?

I don't think not knowing the phrase or word is not acceptable and using it automatically makes that person racist.
But keep on using it after learning it's offensive to many, by their own justification of whatever reason, makes them look very ignorant.

SFIL's racism is only part of it. He's awful in many other ways too!

I understand what you're saying about the OP's husband, but I can't help wondering if he objects to being told he's being racist when he knows he isn't. If he's bored of being told that he can't do or say this or that because it offends someone. That eating curry is cultural appropriation etc. I am certainly fed up with it.