Are these offensive words?

[user1471433387]

DH referred to a girl on TV as half caste and I said it is probably better to say mixed race. He said he would continue to use that word and doesn't see a problem. We had a similar discussion about the word coloured a few years ago. WIBU?

Caste means pure, right? So if you are calling someone half caste, you are calling them half pure.

My ds is mixed race. I find it very offensive, it has very negative feeling to it.

It is ridiculous to have stopped calling whole people 'half pure' ?

OK.

I think we know who is the ridiculous one. You aren't offending anyone or anything saying Opal Fruit. You are just being deliberately obtuse. Different issue.

I understand the appropriate term is now 'mixed heritage'. clairetree1 you might be in the minority being comfortable with 'half-caste', given the origins of the phrase. This is an extract from Wikipedia on the subject:

Sociologist Peter J. Aspinall argues that the term's origins lie in 19th-century British colonial administrations, with it evolving into a descriptor of people of mixed race or ethnicity, "usually encompassing 'White'", in the 20th century. From the 1920s to 1960s, he argues it was "used in Britain as a derogatory racial category associated with the moral condemnation of 'miscegenation'".[36]

Use of the term half-caste is considered offensive today. The National Union of Journalists ratified guidelines for race reporting instructs journalists to 'avoid words that, although common in the past, are now considered offensive, e.g. half-caste and coloured. Ask people how they define themselves. Check if a person identifies as mixed-race or Black'.[37] NHS Editorial guidance states documents should 'Avoid offensive and stereotyping words such as coloured, half-caste and so forth'.[3

SharpLily

One good example is the NAACP - yet apparently coloured is no longer an acceptable term. Dear God, you can't win.

Being mixed race does not give you the right to peddle utterly ignorant shit. A quick Google would tell you why NAACP is still called the NAACP.

It is well noted that Black people are no longer referred to as "colored people," however, when the NAACP was founded in 1909, that was one of the few dignified titles that Black people had. Over the last 20 years, there has been much chatter, both inside and outside of the organization calling for a name change to a more chronologically relevant title. The leadership of the organization desires to keep the name to honor the original founders and to maintain a lasting reminder of the conditions that necessitated its founding.

Sigh.

I can see why people started to object to the term half-caste. I also haven't used it for a very long time. However I'd argue that an awful lot of people have no idea of the etymology or that they were seen as calling someone less than pure by doing so, and would use it with no intent of causing hurt or disrespect. It means they're uninformed. I'm offended by hearing some of my older relatives being called racist when I know they are no such thing and are unwittingly using outdated language.

If I'm told a term is abusive then of course I stop using it. I don't know the OP or her apparently race abusing husband but I think there's a fair chance that he dug his heels in because he's fed up of being told he's being abusive or racist when he is probably no such thing. I'm reaching that stage myself.

The National Union of Journalists ratified guidelines for race reporting instructs journalists to 'avoid words that, although common in the past, are now considered offensive, e.g. half-caste and coloured.

Ah, that's where I'm going wrong, I'm not a member of the NUJ .

A quick Google would tell you why NAACP is still called the NAACP.

I am aware of why, @Shumpalumpa, but I think you're missing the point, which is who on Earth has time to go around Googling to find out what they should be calling different races and why? Why should people have to look up the relevant term for different races regularly? Before I meet up with friends from various different races or even my own family, am I actually expected to check what racial identifier is most appropriate at the moment?

"Words fall in and out of fashion all the time. "

I don't see it as racist at all. It's hard to keep up with what's acceptable these days - it's changing all the time.

It has its origins in the Indian Caste system and colonialism. (Combined origins!) It was used to describe people who were considered lesser because they weren't purely from one caste or, then, purely white.

It became used more commonly when it was considered acceptable to describe someone as a lesser human being, whether that was the intention or not. Whether offence was caused or a word have hugely negative connotations didn't matter for a long time. Thankfully, times have changed.

The fact some people (including those who are mixed race or of mixed heritage) don't know this and therefore can't see why the term is offensive, doesn't change the fact that it is. Ignorance is one thing, refusal to learn and change goes beyond that.

Yea those aren't acceptable. I had to tell my mum recently that coloured was no longer acceptable and she was mortified. That's not racist, just ignorance.

I was puzzled though about 6 months ago I met a random person at a work event, who was mixed race, and he referred to himself as half caste (I can't even remember how that came into conversation tbh think we'd been talking about adopted siblings !) Wasn't quite sure how to handle that one but I thought that was fine in a 'reclaiming' sort of way. Still......cringe.

I wouldn't dream of it but my ex did used to refer to himself as 'half caste', I was shocked and said 'you can't say that!' he said if anyone can say it then he could, that 'caste' means a section in society and he is half/half. A friend uses the term on IG aswell when she puts her modelling photos up.
Anyway, I think your OH was being defensive because you questioned him.

Ignorance is one thing, refusal to learn and change goes beyond that.

And racism is something completely different again.

I have mixed kids (white/Asian). If it ever comes up, we use “mixed race” or “mixed heritage”.
My MIL once used the phrase “half breed” as that’s a normal thing to say in her country - children of mixed race, especially children from a couple where one parent is from her country and the other parent is white, are seen as beautiful - it’s not seen as a negative thing to say, but I was so shocked by the words she used! She’s not said it again in front of me since.

Why are you choosing to be with someone who behaves like that?

Just refer him to John Agard's poem, 'Half Caste'. It illustrates how the term is/ was used in a way that marks people as 'other' , and it shows that the term is largely restricted to the context of race.

genius.com/John-agard-halfe-caste-annotated

The attitudes behind the term have (I hope) largely died out. However, in the early sixties, I can remember my returning from a visit to a local children's home. On her return, she commented (in all innocence/ignorance) that she felt sorry for the 'poor little half-caste children' because 'they were neither one thing nor another and no-one wanted them!'

I apologise for any offence caused by the quotes. I have included them because they show the context in which the term 'half caste' was used.

I must add that my mother, now nearly ninety, would never use such terms today and she is proud to have a great grandson who is dual heritage.

• my mother

I am half caste, and find "mixed race" offensive, and "dual heritage" deeply patronising and offensive

Why is dual heritage offensive?
The etymology of half caste is around the word pure, so half pure and the inference being half white so half / quarter pure.
Mixed race implies that we can be something other than the human race.
I see why both of those are offensive.

Can someone explain how the latter is less offensive than saying you have multiple heritages?

Of course it would be better to just say well, I'm Zoe and I'm me, end of, but we're so obsessed with tick forms and tidying people into boxes

Also mixed heritage more accurate, one race-human race. Noone knows if they are half or dual Irish, black, anything, we are probably all a mix of some proportion, and maybe of more than two. Society makes a big deal out of dark or light skin, otherwise they would just be descriptors, but ethnicity is part of who we are.

Years ago friends I had would refer to themselves as half cast, I always cringed. I’d rather use mixed race. I’m not sure it’s totally offensive.

yet apparently coloured is no longer an acceptable term
My husband is coloured. He is South African and his ethnicity is coloured or Cape Coloured. I found this find hard when we first met as I am British born and over here calling someone coloured would be racist. Over there, it’s normal and he refers to himself as coloured when asked his ethnicity.

Half cast was a term we used in the 90s as it was the norm then. A lot of my family and also myself have married a different ethnicity to us and we all have children now. We always use the term mixed race for our kids

Also hate when people say ethnic to mean black, mixed, foreign or other. We all have ethnicity.

Shadow, that's got some history too! Coloured would mean people of mixed heritage? People of colour is used in USA and may include Hispanic

What the fuck is wrong with him? Why would he continue to use a term that he now knows is offensive?

That said, one of my friends calls his mixed race wife "rice and chips", which is commonly referred to as half and half where they live in Wales. So you might say "Please can I have curry with half and half?" Luckily she thinks it's funny and it's a bit of a private joke between them.

How often is it really necessary to use words like this? It takes me aback when whilst reading/hearing stories about, say, next-door neighbours referring 'the guy', 'a woman', 'that man' suddenly there's mention of 'a black man/woman', as if white were default setting. I can't see that it would bear mentioning that someone's parents have different skin colours except in limited specific contexts.

(I also can't see why people who refer to themselves as 'half-caste' should be castigated by people who aren't, nor why etymology should take precedence over a word's current, universally accepted meaning.)

If you discover that a term is offensive and racist, you have a choice: 1) stop using it now that you are more enlightened and know better, or 2) continue to use it, knowing that it's racist and will hurt people, but making up an excuse about being too stupid or off-trend to be able to stop using it.

What kind of person goes for option 2?

Agree with everything Sharplily said.