Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How unusual was this abuse? Triggering.

81 replies

redrobin1000 · 01/07/2018 00:05

Posting in AIBU for the traffic as I need a wide response please. Posting for my male friend - I'll call him Jack. If you can't be bothered to read the whole post as it's overlong, it would still be great if you could read the first paragraph and respond. Thanks.

As a child in the '80s, Jack's father (I'll call him Simon) used to punish him and his siblings using the buckle end of a belt. Jack remembers terrible pain, welts, blood and being unable to sit down comfortably for days afterwards. This took place during the middle school years. He doesn't know what label to put on these experiences.

Jack doesn't know if Simon's parenting was 'normal' for the 80s but he thinks it was. It's important now because Jack is dealing with massive psychological issues (he thinks he's on the narcissistic spectrum). He would like to get a clearer perspective on his childhood, which he has always believed was idyllic. Hopefully your replies will give some idea of how common - or not - his experience was.

For context, Jack has tended to see Simon as a god-like presence in his life. Simon is a highly successful business man and Christian leader. He is almost universally admired and has even opened his home to have kids from the foster care system stay for years. It's hard to see him as the architect of an unhappy childhood. However, Jack has spent time in counselling with two counsellors who both know Simon well (it's a small area) and they have independently offered their experiences of having felt controlled/bullied by him in a church setting. They apparently used the phrase 'narcissistic traits'. This was a revelation to Jack.

As far as the punishments go, Jack remembers feeling sick with fear each summer when report cards were sent home. He was the school 'nerd', targeted by bullies and suffering from dyslexia. Jack's teachers told him he was a disgrace to his family. Simon belted him for his poor reports because he believed it was 'a character issue'. As an adult, Jack asked his father why he didn't help him with his prep instead. His father replied that he would have found that 'boring'. Although the punishments were not limited to report card season, Jack still repeatedly says how 'safe' he felt with his father to protect him when he talks about his childhood memories.

Jack doesn't know where his mom was when the punishments were taking place. He remembers her being told to leave the room if she tried to speak when his father was disciplining.

As an adult, Jack successfully joined his father's business. During his twenties, Jack went through a long phase of being informally counselled by Simon and taking his advice to the letter (a lot of people seem to do this). Looking back, Jack is embarrassed by some of the things he did when acting on Simon's advice. Once, he wanted to start a relationship with a female friend he was 'dating' but didn't feel attracted to her. At his father's suggestion, Jack asked her to start wearing more make-up. When she took offence, Simon said she was suffering from 'psychological issues'. It might be relevant to say that Simon has also explained his mom's 'failings' to him in detail (apparently she 'emotionally opted out' of parenting him) and warned Jack not to 'lose control' of his wife when he marries. For some reason, Simon believes good-looking people are usually 'sinful' and thought, on first meeting his future wife (who is startlingly beautiful and younger than him) that she was so beautiful she had to be 'full of sin'.

Counselling has helped Jack to see that Simon isn't perfect today. As an adult, Jack thinks that he and Simon are probably both on the narcissistic spectrum (the difference being that Jack is worried about it). But Jack sees the childhood punishments as an error of judgement in an otherwise healthy upbringing. This leaves him at a loss to understand how he has ended up so lost and unable to 'feel' things, including empathy. As most psychological work seems to start with childhood, Jack finds it difficult to get past the starting gate. It doesn't help that Jack has very few memories of his childhood but has been told many, many stories about his childhood by Simon. Or that almost everyone we know thinks Simon is our state's answer to Billy Graham.

I have tried to suggest that the punishments may be too extreme to be explained away - perhaps they're a sign that Jack's childhood needs weren't being met in the way he thinks they were. He knows my view but it doesn't make sense to him. It's not my job to sort this out and I can really go no further to help. But Simon is a huge fan of second opinions and will think deeply about anything that is reflected back to him here. Thank you for sticking with me to the end (if anybody has)!

OP posts:
stopfuckingshoutingatme · 01/07/2018 18:37

Poor poor jack

His father (fuck the labelling) was a cruel and violent man

I am so sorry he went through this awful childhood

It’s not normal in any way shape or form x

I hope he can get some decent help to heal

TooManyPaws · 01/07/2018 19:04

Obvious abuse, both physical and psychological. He needs to get well away from his family and church, at least until he has had considerable therapy from people who are completely unlinked to them. It sounds like he has complex-PTSD and trauma-related memory loss.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s with older parents and was never physically abused other than the occasional smack on the hand or bum, neither were my parents other than the usual school punishments of the time.

Psychological abuse was another thing in my family but it was born of learned patterns of behaviour and wartime PTSD, and I can clearly remember episodes rather than blanking them out to remember an idyllic childhood though I can remember many happy times.

Jack needs to get well away in order to learn normal human behaviour and get intensive counselling before he can say whether he is narcissistic or even gay or straight. I don't think he knows what is real and what has been programmed into him.

CSIblonde · 01/07/2018 19:27

It's not normal 'for the 80's, it's physical and emotional abuse, end of. Jack has prob ably some level of Stockholm Syndrome, whereby you empathise with and excuse your abuser - as a survival tactic. His father is a controlling, manipulative, abusive man. I'd strongly suggest poor Jack does some Googling re the signs of emotional abuse, as unless you know what that means, it's easy for others to dismiss/ to say 'that's just the way they are'. I feel for him, it's good he has you for support, he's getting counselling: and independant accounts that his father is abusive will help him see he's not to blame or lacking character wise.

sunshinewithabitofdrizzle · 01/07/2018 20:42

I was a teenager in the 80s and was regularly punished by smacks with a shoe horn or belt (but never the buckle end), as were my brothers. The skin was never broken and as soon as we cried it stopped (so I learned to cry straight away). I don't think I ever discussed it with friends but assumed they were punished similarly and I felt it was normal at the time and I don't feel differently about it now.

As for Jack, I dont think he's narcissistic, he wouldn't be as self aware of his shortcomings if he was. I think he's just really confused and brainwashed by his upbringing and may be gay or bi and can't process that.

redrobin1000 · 01/07/2018 20:58

Thanks everyone. I've passed all of this along to Jack. He would prefer that I didn't give any details about his location but really appreciates the time people have taken to comment. And has looked up the books already.

OP posts:
ReanimatedSGB · 01/07/2018 23:53

Jack needs a lot more help than you can give him. And this 'church' needs a thorough investigation, serial prosecutions and the whole organisation being forcibly shut down, because it is clearly crawling with abusive men who protect one another, and a structure which not only condones but encorages the abuse of women and children.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread