To ask tips on how to sort this?

[NewDOOFUSfor18]

I have a 6 year old ds who has alway provided much hell fun when it comes to sleep. I've started threads and had great support when I've reached the end of my tether and just can't cope with the exhaustion any more however things have taken a turn and I just don't know what to do.

Back story: when ds was 18 months old we used the rapid return technique at bedtime as it was taking upwards of 3 hours to get ds to go to sleep. It took 3 nights but we got there (it didn't sort the multiple waking throughout the night, which still happen to this day) and it never happened again.....until the past week. Every night is a battle and I'm becoming progressively less tolerant, not helped by being woken approx 5-8 times a night for absolutely fuck all reason so I'm knackered.

So far we've had major kick offs because he's hungry (despite eating his body weight in food and having supper before bed), he's thirsty, his teddy has a hole, he's hot (going to bed in just shorts with only a duvet cover, window open) he's not tired etc. Now this last one bothers me because he is absolutely hanging out of his arse, he looks tired and acts hideous. Not only is he not going to sleep until gone 9pm but he's awake by 6am at the latest.

He's currently sat on the sofa next to me refusing to go to bed as he can't sleep and I'm, quite frankly, fucked right off. I just don't know how to turn this around, rapid return won't work now due to his age....please help, how on earth do I get him to go to sleep at bedtime when he's clearly knackered??

racecar 😂😂😂

Oh ffs now the dog is barking, there's no fucking let up. I'm destined never to sleep again

I'm similar to SaltyPeanut, always have been. My parents were usually asleep before I was from around age 5. I didn't nap in the day time ever.
At uni I was so envious of friends who could enjoy a little nap in the day.

I used to get out of bed in the evening and venture downstairs to see what was happening because I was so bored just lying there trying to sleep.
I have tried meditation and calming music and listening to monotonous voices but I can't just go to sleep. Makes it so much worse having a DH who goes out like a light and snores so I can lie awake listening to that! Or tell him to bog off to the spare room!

I hope your DS gets some sleep soon. I know my mum used to say she couldn't make me go to sleep but she really had to go to sleep herself or she wouldn't be able to look after us so please don't wake her in the night unless I was sick or something. I used to read for hours but stayed in my room while my parents slept.

My technique for getting to sleep is deep breathing. Breathe in counting to four, hold it and count to four, breathe out count to four, hold it, count to four. Maybe he could try that?

So what happens when he wakes in the night?

I feel your pain. I have a 12 year old who is like this and we still haven’t found a solution.

But here’s a little something to make you smile 😀

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Udj-o2m39NA

hmm regarding the late bedtime to solve sleeping issues - a relative (adult) had sleep issues and went to a (private) sleep clinic.
they started out with extreme sleep deprivation. 3 hours sleep for a few days. no napping or resting during the day. then one hour was added every few days until 6 hours were reached.
it worked for my relative, but is probably too extreme for a child.

Audio stories? May keep him in his room relaxing

I tell DD if you can't sleep lie quietly and count.

If he responds to rewards I would get him a sticker chart with a small prize for 3 successful nights.

My DD did the coming down stairs saying she could t sleep.She just wanted to cuddle up and watch TV with us.We noticed and every time she came down turned the TV off and picked up books.She came down less and less as it was just as boring downstairs.
I also used to tell her to lie still and close her eyes as even if the rest if her body wasn't sleepy her eyes needed to rest and nighttime was when your body repairs itself after a hard day.

Rapid return is fine for a 6 year old, combined with rewards for remaining quietly in bed. He is getting benefit out of getting up and/or calling you, you need to make it more beneficial for him to lie calmly and wait for sleep whenever he wakes.

I think bedtime is probably too early for this time of year. My 7 year old goes to bed at 8.30 but doesn't fall asleep untilcloser to 10pm. My 5 year old goes to bed at 8pm but while it's been so warm, like tonight it was 9pm.

I'm with salty and Baguette. I have had insomnia since I was 7.
Mine was very specifically linked to an "event" but was punished like I was deliberately being naughty. I would sit on the stairs in the middle of the night willing the hands to go round. I still cry for that little girl who was so tired and so told off.
40 years on - despite therapy and pills, any imbalance and the first thing that goes is sleep. Some of us just sleep badly. Even when we are knackered and desperate

I have 2 6yos and it's crazy hot. They're really struggling so I've let them stay up later than usual as it's pointless trying to get them to sleep at 7.30pm. They went to bed at 8.30pm with instructions to lay down and rest their bodies even if they can't sleep. I'm usually pretty firm about sleep but I'm struggling to sleep in this heat so I feel their pain.

Sounds to me like there's too much faffing around. You've give him a drink youve given him your time toilet etc. Id check what was up once and then that would be it. What's he doing at night when he wakes is he crying? Saying that though I'm a firm believer in no nonsense bedtimes. I think downtime and rest for everyone is super important. If he keeps getting out of bed he will loose privelages/games etc.

Would he sleep in beside you? I know that sounds like starting a bad habit, but what if you had him in with you for a month or two to create the sleeping habit, then try to work on the sleeping alone part?

Our daughter is 9 and a half. One of us still reads her a bedtime story , lies down next to her bed until she's nodding off. Until a few years ago she came into my bedroom several times a night. I was barely getting any sleep, I was at my wits end. So, I decided that I was only going to get sleep if I let her into my bed, stay all night and made it seem as though she was welcome. I started to get sleep. It was amazing, everything improved. My husband send I sleep in separate beds/rooms so it was doable.
For the last couple of years she has slept through in her own bed almost every night. She knows she can come in with me if she's poorly or scared.
The last few nights she's crept in with me. I think it's the heat (makes her miserable). Anyhow I think that knowing she can sleep with me helps her sleep without me (does that make sense to you?) I'm more relaxed which I think rubs off on her ...
I say do what works for you. What keeps you sane. They won't wasn't to sleep with us when they are bloomin' teenagers!!!
My mother looks aghast and says 'are you still having problems with bedtimes?!! I wouldn't have put up with it'. In my head I scream "fuck off mum, st Lear I'm getting enough sleep and haven't lost my job/mind".
Good luck m'dear.

I'll tell you a couple of things that sometimes help me a little now or did when I was young.

I have a silky teddy bear like fabric throw/blanket which feels smooth and soothing against the skin. There is a mens robe I got from Matalan that is made of the same material and helps me sleep if I'm wearing it in bed. I know it might be odd but they make me feel more comfortable as the scratchiness/stiffness/sweatiness of woven cotton sheets (especially polycotton) can be an irritating factor. Have also found cotton jersey T-shirt sheets to aid physical comfort also.

Tell you what else has made a difference, I got a foam mattress. Not memory foam, just normal foam like in a sofa cushion. Really cheap. No lumpy pokey springs anymore. Hasn't gotten rid of my difficulties completely but I think I've slept more and better since.

When I was little my mum put a peachy table lamp by my bed with a low wattage traditional bulb in it with it's soft warm glow and would lie down next to me and just hold my hand till I fell asleep.

I also had a giant soft teddy for a while that was bigger than me that I used to put my head on and put my arm around.

She used to give me a round of cheese on toast (not melted, makes it harder to digest) and a small cup of hot chocolate made with milk, which sometimes helped me feel sleepy.

Another trick, this one depends on the child as some like it but some don't, is to very softly stroke the face sort of in a semi circle with one finger like you're drawing around their face starting just above the temple and ending just before the chin. It may take practice to get the level of touch right, tickling is not the goal. I think it's a bit hypnotic, has worked brilliantly on babies who were crying for me too.

Don't know if any of that will help but I feel for anyone who struggles with sleep and their parents so thought I'd write down some of my experiences.

Hope you find some peace soon.

So last night was much better! I sat him down before bed and explained that I will be walking him back to bed and telling him it's bedtime, with no other conversation, and for every time I had to do it he would lose one day of technology....that means no tv (including films that we regularly cuddle up and watch), no tablet (that is restricted to an hour a day anyway) and no using my phone to play his favourite game. He didn't come out once! Plus, as an added bonus, he slept all night shows he can do it if he wants to!

Op, you are awesome. Well done. Remember last night, keep calm, stay confident and you will both get through this and end up in a better place.

Aw brilliant op. Well done!

Well that lasted one night ffs.

It's only 8pm. Just stay calm, be consistent with your consequences and have the courage to follow through if he insists on hopping up and down. Only then will he put 2 and 2 together and realise you are serious.
Change takes practice and lots of it.

Stay strong... do exactly what you said you’d do. He will push boundaries. Good luck!

Thank you, I needed that. It's going to be a long road I feel! He's up to 4 day techno ban so far, I'm bloody well following that through!