To think having a baby is more a woman's decision

[gigigigigigigig]

Maybe I am being U but hear me out.

Me and DP both want kids. We are the same age, late 20s. I have long said I don't want to be an older mum - I have nothing against people who do that, but I personally don't wish to have children older myself. Women in my family have had problems getting and staying pregnant over 30, and I've always thought I would have a child before 30. (I'm not saying 30 is an old mum btw).

I know life doesn't always go to plan, but for years DP has said the same. We are still not quite at the point to have kids, but I was hoping in 2 years or so we would be. But now, DP is saying things that are frustrating me. He says "people have kids in their 40s now, late 30s is a good time to have kids as we will have more money." I said in an ideal world, but in reality people who wait that long often experience fertility problems. He's having none of it, he says he wants children but maybe wants to half pay off the mortgage before having one (we haven't even bought a house yet!)

His attitude annoys me, as while yes, a child affects both parents, it's me who would go through morning sickness, pregnancy, childbirth, breast feeding and looking after the child for the most part. I agree it's a decision for both parents, but surely a woman's wishes are ever so slightly higher than a man's as it's her body that will be affected? Maybe 51:49. He wants children, probably more than me actually, so that's not the issue. I'm just saying if we have children, I want to do it younger as I don't want to go through the stress to my body and possible fertility complications as an older mum. I know men can have issued with fertility too, but there are so many more things that can affect a woman's ability to bear a child. AIBU?

Dealing with stroppy teenagers in your mid to late 50's is hard too when all you want to do is curl up on the sofa and take a nap. I'd much rather be 10 years younger with no dodgy knees and other ageing issues.

While women don't have more of a say I think their age is more of a factor when deciding when to have kids. If he keeps putting it off I'd be worried that he'll happily string me along for 8 years then eventually end up with a woman 10 years younger.

I think you have an equal say in the matter.

I’m like you - I didn’t want to leave it too late - and I had my first DC when I was 31 and DH was 30. If he’d wanted to leave it until I was late 30s I would seriously have considered ending the relationship. It would have been a deal breaker for me, especially given the way he has changed his mind. How can you be sure he’ll be ready even in 10 years time?

Talk to him - explain your concerns that fertilely can massively decline, that age increases risks - risks to your health complications and raises risks or baby having problems and tell him your mental cut-off date.

If none of that affects him - I think he doesn't want children or at least with you and is stringing you along. It's common phenomenon.

if he suggests IVF as solution - point of the costs and the huge stress involved. It's not an easy solution.

Men age matters as well in fertility but gets less coverage.

yourfertility.org.au/for-men/age/
The facts about men, age and fertility
The quality of a man’s sperm decreases with age. As a man ages, it takes longer for his partner to get pregnant. There’s also an increased risk of not conceiving at all.

Whatever the age of the mother, the risk of miscarriage is higher if the father is over 45. The children of older fathers are at greater risk of autism, mental health problems and learning difficulties.

The figures about men, age and fertility
The average time to pregnancy if a man is under 25 is just over 4.5 months but nearly two years if a man is over 40 (if the woman is under 25).
There is a five-fold increase in time to pregnancy if the male partner is aged over 45 years.
For couples having IVF, the risk of not having a baby is more than five times higher if the male partner is aged 41 or older.
The volume of a man’s semen and sperm motility (the ability of sperm to move towards an egg) decrease continually between the ages of 20 and 80.
^The risk of miscarriage is twice as high for women whose male partner is aged over 45 than for those whose partners are under 25.
Children with fathers aged 40 or older are more than five times as likely to have an autism spectrum disorder than children fathered by men aged under 30.^
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3253726/

Despite all that he still gets to decide when he wants to be a father IMO you get to decide if you can live his decsion and if not sadly move on before your choices are gone.

Equal choice I think, also you may not breast feed and he may want shared parental leave so in this case it wouldn't be 100% up to you

Things don't always go to plan

Mumsnet is a weird place. If the OP started a thread asking is it too late to have a baby at 35/40, as happened the other day, people would be piling on with their stories of successful late pregnancies!

At this point I would say decision is 50:50. A serious talk is needed as there are years of difference between just before 30 and late 30s.... Is everything else ok with relationship? Don't become trapped until 35 then find he never wants kids with you!! Sorry to scaremonger but I have seen this happen to three friends.

As far as fertility goes, you are right, earlier (I would say pre 33) is better, especially if you want more than one child - so how many do you both want? What about age gaps?

The decision to have a first baby was a joint decision which we did when my DH was 31. He always said he would never want to be a new dad after the age of 35 and I definitely didn’t want to be having babies in my mid-late 30’s so it made sense to have one when he suggested it.

The decision to have a second baby was my decision and it took almost a year of persuasion before DH agreed.

At this point he was coming up to 34 and he said if I hadn’t conceived by the time he was 35 then we would stop trying because that was his cut off point. It took 10 cycles (almost 8 months) to fall pregnant with our second son and it was 6 months before my husband turned 35.

In your situation I wouldn’t be sticking around. To be honest it sounds like he’s not too fussed about having a baby and he’s quite happy for you to hang around whilst your fertility declines as you patiently wait for him to change his mind. I wouldn’t be letting a man dictate when/if I could have children in that manner.

At the end of the day talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words and the way in which he’s now saying about waiting a decade speaks volumes.

This is anecdotal and of course affected by circumstances but we are just 'finished' at 37. Three very close together but first took a while, miscarriage, surgeries to conceive. We must have started at 31. So even with second 2 conceptions happening fairly quickly (lucky) it is a process and takes a while. We know masses of couples who've had miscarriages, ivfs, secondary infertility, etc. The thought of just being at the starting point now is so tiring. If you do have a choice, then I'd say go early and see what happens.

Also, we know masses of people with bigger/fully decorated houses compared to ours. But I'd take the certainty of having had children already first any day, massively so.

My DH used to say the same, plenty of women get pregnant in their late 30s. I showed him facts and figures and had multiple discussions and we eventually started TTC aged 29. Now 31 and no baby and it’s also now a year since my miscarriage. Infertility is really tough but I’m really glad I started trying in my early 30s not late as if we have to do IVF the chances we will be successful are far greater this side of 35.

You need to do research and show him it. Tell him this is a dealbreaker. Sounds like you are not married. You may need to be prepared to walk away if he won’t agree to compromise on the TTC timeline. You can’t force him so if he won’t agree your only option is to leave and find someone who is willing to be a parent sooner. It sucks but that’s how it is.

Apparently the medical term for pregnancy over 35 used to be "a geriatric pregnancy".

Isn't there the option of IVF if all else fails?

Many couples believe this - wrongly. Fertility treatment is expensive, invasive and has a high failure rate. Seven out of 10 women who have in vitro fertilisation (IVF) do not achieve a live birth and this rises to nine out of ten for the over 40s, though success rates are improving. NHS provision is patchy and scarce and unavailable to women over 39.

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-big-question-so-is-there-an-optimum-age-for-a-woman-to-have-a-baby-421597.html

SerenDippitty presumably the OP of the other thread was already aged 35/40? Reassuring her that it may not be too late for her is completely different from advising someone in their late 20s that she'll be fine to leave it for a decade or so!

I would guess he doesn’t want kids at all in this case.

Has he considered how costly IVF can be - financially and emotionally? And that it often fails? £10k plus and very possibly no baby.

Wouldn't he rather have the babies 'for free', when it's physically and emotionally easier, then use your late 30s income to pay off the mortgage, or for something else more fun or equally reliable?

I think your 'rights' perspective is not the right angle, at this point. The issue is commitment, to each other and to having children.

It may also be ignorance or misplaced optimism (though this also takes us back to commitment - is he really thinking about him having dc, or you as a couple?). Show him the fertility stats. Also emphasise the increased chance of miscarriage - taking up time between pregnancies that might be successful, just when you don't have time.

You may or may not have the same fertility experience as members of your family. You won't know until you try though.

Talk about being an older parent and its consequences e.g. less time with your grandchildren, particularly less while you're fully active, if you have a chance to get to know them at all. Epecially so if your dcs follow your example (38+38 = 76, 40+40 = 80). Also a shorter relationship between your dcs and their grandparents of course. There's potential for your dcs to be placed in a double-caring role with small dcs and declining parents (you) just when their careers might be starting to repay earlier hard work with rewarding but demanding senior roles.

Do not let him waste your child-bearing years (then say no / break up / who knows what may happen).

The reality is that he has 100% choice over trying to have a child with you, or not. You (having already expressed willingness to try) have 100% choice not to try with him.

You both retain '100% not' forever. You have no ownership over each other's reproductive capacities or futures.

Given that he's the one who doesn't want to conceive for a decade, I trust he's also the one taking responsibility for contraception?

"nobody should ever be forced to have a child they don’t want, for their and the child’s sake, no matter how broody the other partner is."

I disagree with that. There is no such thing as 100% effective contraception and if you've impregnated someone who doesn't want an abortion, tough. Your right not to become a parent conflicts with a woman's right not to undergo a termination she doesn't want.

My ExDH said this for years - i was with him 9 years then he left me for a woman with a child (no idea if they are still together) I don't believe he ever had DC of his own and the more I think about it the more I realise he was too mean to have them.

Sorry I was devastated when he left but now I think about it I am pretty sure it was for the best

I spent my 30s having this discussion, tho my DH pretty much always wasn't that keen. There is never a good time, so easy to keep kicking the can down the road.

We don't have kids, so decide if your partner is enough for you. I think if it's going to cause resentment, then you have problems.

It sounds like he's keeping his options open.

To say 'I really want kids, but not for another 10 years when pregnancy could be really difficult for you' wouldn't fill me with great hope for the future.

How long are you prepared to wait OP? Unless your circumstances are completely unsuitable for a baby (no jobs/ home/ unstable relationship) then why wouldn't he want a baby when it was most likely to be successful?

gigigigigigigig I really feel for you and absolutely understand your situation.

Unfortunately, and I think it's hard to admit - It IS a 50:50 decision when it comes to trying to start a family. You both have to be ready at the same time. It is such a massive life decision neither of you should be forced or coerced into making. Once you have a child, that is it, no going back. I would feel awful if we got pregnant and my husband didn't actually feel ready to be a father. You both want to be ecstatically happy and excited together. You want him to be right there with you when it comes to caring for the baby and the ups and downs that come with it. If he is forced into TTC you would always wonder HOW happy is he really??

It is a very frustrating situation for a woman who's maternal clock is ticking. We can't control it. Men, on the other hand don't have the same pull. They think with their brain - I want more money, I want us both to be more successful in our jobs, I think we should have a bigger house, I'm not ready to give up my social life, starting a family in our late 30's/40's is fine!! This is ridiculous when you take into account all of the above advice regarding trying to conceive and age. Unfortunately some men are just too optimistic and blind to this and don't realise it's seriously important to research these biological, evidential facts and make the decision based on that instead of where they think they should be in there life.

It's a really hard situation but perhaps just wait a little longer and bring it up with him again in a few months, calmly explaining your reasons. He WILL come around in his own time, probably quicker than if you keep bringing it up.

Only you know your husband and if he actually wants children in his future. Don't listen to people telling you he "clearly doesn't want kids". Nobody's life and relationship are perfect. You have to work together to get where you want to be.

You have to work together to get where you want to be.

No.

A man who is saying that he wants to wait for children until the woman he is with is too old to have them or has massively increased risks, isn't working together with her.

He's hedging his bets and gambling with her fertility.

No woman needs to work together with a man who is prepared to do that to her. Women are entitled to put their wishes for their lives first, just like men do.

That doesn't mean the OP has the right to make her partner a parent without his consent. But it does mean she needs to be really clear-sighted about what she wants from life and how likely the man she is currently with, will give her that.

I wouldn't choose to have a child in my late 30s in your position. I'd make my timeline clear and if he's not on board...I'd move on.

If one person isn’t ready and doesn’t agree to TTC then it’s always, 100%, down to that person’s wishes. As nobody should ever be forced to have a child they don’t want, for their and the child’s sake, no matter how broody the other partner is
This.
Why should a woman's broodiness take over a man's lack of desire to procreate?

Soon someone will be saying 'tell him you won't be taking any responsibility for contraception at all' or other manipulative nonsense.

And as for the suggest up thread that he's gaslighting?! He's been quite clear about his wishes. If two people are on different pages then they can always leave