I think DH is upholding the glass ceiling (not DIY). WIBU?

[Pa1oma]

DH has a company which employs maybe a thousand people, of which probably about 40% are women. It’s not a traditionally male industry like construction, however, in 15 years, there has never been a female director. Whenever I’ve asked him why this is, he says he would like this to change but no women seem to apply.

Then last night I heard him in the phone to someone discussing restructuring the board of directors and his words were, “She’d be worth consideration, but she’ll probably have a baby or something soon” . When he got off the phone, I told him what I’d heard and asked him if he knew for a fact that this woman was pregnant. He said, “Well I wouldn’t know but she’s in her late 30s and I think she’s been discussing it”.

His argument is he’s not going to risk over £100k on someone if he’s not sure they’re going to see “the next phase” through. My argument is, he is not in a position to presume anything about anyone. WIBU?

it's so difficult there a moral and partical issue for any business with this. Wherei worked years ago 3 were off on maternity leave 1/4 of the workforce at the same time it nearly brought the business down .

@tinkobell some women might do that , but some men come in as directors , can’t sell and quit after probation getting 6 months paid notice ... directors are quite well paid! Or they come in from industry , use the job to network and quit 6 mo later having found another industry job. Both of these are pretty much only men in my experience but no one sees it as a problem with men. It’s just easier to point to what women do as a problem ...

Lipstick, I do take your point, though I do think you can have differing views when it comes to how you organise your home / personal life and your professional outlook. For instance, I’ve been a SAHM for over a decade because it was what suited me - not only because it was what DH preferred. That said, I don’t think it’s for all women and I certainly don’t think women should be passed over in the basis that they “might” have babies . I find this unbelievable. So even if he has a wife at home, this should not affect his professional discretion.

@worridmum

So, there's a big age-gap between you and your younger brother? Seeing as you were on the board of governors while he was at secondary school?

Anyway, so one of the maths teachers had five babies and five periods of maternity leave in consecutive years? Blimey, she must have been very good at number-crunching and timed DTD to space these babies so precisely enough to qualify for maternity leave again.

I wonder what she did with all these children when she was back at work. What a childcare bill to have 4 under 5!

And your colleague who had eight periods of maternity leave on the trot? How did she manage that?

Obviously you work in a very highly paid sector, for women to be able to plan such large families.

Or maybe there's something in the water?

He doesn’t accommodate working women in his personal or business life
You said Strangely, I don’t think we ever had a discussion about me returning to work at any point
No I bet not,he wouldn’t have countenanced it,so your career progression became a non event.work not discussed as his expectation is women (inc his wife) don’t work when they have children

These guys are always skilled at manoeuvring partners into giving up work

God forbid a woman would ever decide for herself to be a SAHM...you sound like you have a poor opinion of women yourself.

@time.....fair point re: male attrition / turnover and to be fair I hear moaning about both of those points in equal balance. I can only speak for my DH who doesn't harp on about women more than men. I know he'll love to take on more women with the right skill mix but often, they're not there.

if you must know Jamie i am 18 years older then my youngest sibling but that is not here or there.

And the colluge that had 8 children lived in a large house with her grand parents and Great grand parents whom did all the child care where the Young adults went out to work to earn enough to support the whole family.

It was a piss take as she went to HR demending to know why she didnt get a promotion / yearly performance based pay raises saying "worriedmum" got two promotions but i have 'worked' here longer then her so i should of been promoted ahead of her "despite her only working the bare amount to qualify for the materinty leave. While yes she was one of the longest serving members of staff but during her time with the company we barely saw her for 2 months before she was again off again for materinty.

I know some people have told the OP how on earth can she stay with a man who is holding up the glass ceiling. But there's a lot of things said within the private 4 walls of people's home that would get slammed by public opinion, I commend the OP for being brave, sharing and opening the debate.....esp. on MN. Though I do feel a bit sorry if there is a DD.....because the same line of thought from the DH might also question the point of even educating girls in the first place.

I know I’ll get flamed for this, but as a woman of childbearing age I honestly wouldn’t have a problem with a company not employing me if I’d made it known I was about to try for a baby. I think it’s fair to take into account my career AND my family plans when I’m thinking about a career move or TTC. I wouldn’t expect a company to take me on knowing I was planning children in the very near future as I think it’s unfair to take a job and then be quickly away for a year, leaving them trying to find someone to fill the gap, for a job they clearly need doing! Nor would I have an issue with not being taken beyond the probationary period if I got pregnant within the first six months.

I know that’s not this scenario and in this case he’s definitely BU as there’s no reason to assume that her age and sex mean she’s automatically going to get pregnant and then go on maternity leave, that’s unfair to all women. But if she has been daft enough to be open about TTC, the company is right not to promote her to a position that needs doing when she’s just gonna do it for a few months and then leave them in the lurch.

FGS.

I was hired when 5 months pregnant and with 2 children under 4 because I am very gooda t my job and could prove easy that I had godo childcare already in place, wanted to work full time until I die and would just take a few weeks off when the baby came. It works very well indeed doing that!

These guys are always skilled at manoeuvring partners into giving up work

What an odd thing to say. Many women who are SAHP willingly choose that. Who wouldn’t want to be able to give up work to stay home with their children, even once they’re at school? Whatever anyone says, many many jobs are a hell of a lot more stressful and demanding both mentally and emotionally than staying at home, which is a luxury.

I dare say the majority of SAHM didn’t have to be ‘manoeuvred’ into it at all

Xenia that’s fair enough... but most women don’t just have a few weeks off when baby arrives, they take months, sometimes a year. You can’t blame businesses for taking that into account when hiring. Even if the law says otherwise.

It is narrow minded as he’s failing to realise the commercial benefits of women in senior levels, the balance and perspective they can bring to a board especially in a business with so many female employees. Can’t you help to educate him? Do you suffer similar discrimination at work, how would he feel about that?

I don’t think it’s so much a case of men “manoeuvring” women into being SAHMs so much, it’s probably more a case of seeking out a certain type of woman in the first place? Maybe, I don’t know?

Thankyou Tinkobell. As I say, I’m not a “working woman” myself, but that doesn’t mean this kind of thing doesn’t wind me up. I would have been adamant DH is one of the “good guys” in terms of promoting equality of opportunity. I always just took his word for it, I guess - “women don’t apply” etc. This is just one company obviously, but it’s still depressing and makes you question what actually goes on under the surface.

Going from Xenia's usual posts - she even beat Mary at being the first to experience immaculate conception. Xenia could probably solve world hunger, cure cancer AND be home before dinner time.

This is why I think there should be compulsory paternity leave, of the same length of time as maternity leave. Then companies would just have to accept that it’s just a fact of life, and that they’ll have to find ways to deal or lose out on whole generations of productive and capable employees. Men would also develop a better understanding that bringing up children is also work.

These guys are always skilled at manoeuvring partners into giving up work yes!
op can’t quite recall any conversation about her going back to work.
Read it on mn loads,the dp couldn’t (more like wouldn’t) go PT.job too demanding
Usually the women who gives things up.time passes and it’s been years since last worked
Who wouldn’t want to be able to give up work to stay home with their children, even once they’re at school? me!
I have never wanted to give up work. It’s not what all women want. I’d hate to be stuck home,not working
And no I’d not be manoeuvred into it by a man

I think lots of women do actively want to be SAHMs and don’t need to be tricked into it. I see the appeal, especially since most people have careers that are honestly pretty dull. But I think it is naive to assume it ends up being a good idea in the long term for many or even most women who do it, and i would be very, very wary of any man who is happy to go along with this arrangement without much apparent thought.

Apart from anything else, a man should want to spend time with his family, and see work as an obstacle to that. I think men with SAH wives tend to see family as an inconvenient obstacle to work.

Songs yes to mandatory paternity leave! It makes me so angry that it would so obviously change so much and it’s not even a policy that’s ever seriously discussed. If we had that plus universal free childcare from birth I believe we would see a major change in the rigidity of gender roles.

I have never actually said anyone is tricked into being sahm.
I said manoeuvred. Manoeuvres based on gender,and societal expectations
Manoeuvre based on male privilege, they don’t expect to be the parent giving things up
All these factors make it easier to manoeuvre the woman. Op said she can’t recall they ever discussed her return to work. Assumption was she'd give up work

Yes I would agree that men like this do tend to make the assumption. The fact they didn’t ever discuss it speaks volumes about what he sees women as being “for”.

In my first job I went on mat leave and returning within 6 months and did enough KIT days to keep everything ticking over waiting for my return. It had a minimal impact on the organisation. I did it because although it was the lowest paying job I ever had (charitable sector) I loved it and wanted to achieve my goals there. My mat leave was definitely not a bar and it is absolutely ridiculous to assume that it should be. Every woman is different and many will ensure a smooth transition/period of absence during their leave. Indeed mat leaves I think are fabulous opportunities for people further down the chain to take over the rains for a little while when appropriate. To exclude women from senior positions for that reason is extremely narrow sighted.