AIBU to expect my kids to not to told off for speaking English in a welsh medium school?

[Hairyfairy01]

I have 2 dc in year 3 and 6 who attend a welsh medium primary school and have been taught in the welsh medium since they started school. However both dc are brought up in an english speaking household. English medium education at primary level is not available in this area of wales. Both dc have reported to me that they get told off for speaking English in the classroom, corridors, lunchtime and playtime by both teachers and pupil members of the school 'welsh' council. Now I have no issues with encouraging the welsh language and totally support their scheme of rewarding pupils for speaking welsh in social situations. However I do have an issue of telling kids off for speaking english, not so much in lesson time, but more at lunchtime / playtime. Surely at these 'downtime' occasions kids should be able to speak whatever language they like, be it French, Chinese or whatever. I can only imagine that this is what happens in other primary schools where children's home / first language is different to the main language of the school occurs? Are they all told off for speaking French / Chinese etc? Feeling furious but not sure if iabu?

All I can say is that I went through this too and with the benefit of more years than I care to think of, I can see why it happened. We were bollocked for speaking English, for speaking Wenglish and for having the wrong colour hair bands. It builds character and did us no harm

How else are Wales ever going to get independence if they dont force everyone to speak Welsh? Its the same in Scotland, a political decision!

If you have chosen a Welsh speaking school for your children you should accept that they will be encouraged to speak that language for the entire day. Otherwise take then out of that system. Its works the same in Ireland for Gaelic speaking schools.

in London children aren't allowed to speak their native languages in the playground. even if they are Muslim . if you want your kids to speak English all day move to England. hth.

I think there is a difference between speaking a minority language in a mainstream language school and speaking the mainstream language in a specialist language medium school. The DC shouldn't be punished but they should be reminded of the need to keep Welsh. If they don't speak it at home this is all the more important.

in London children aren't allowed to speak their native languages in the playground. even if they are Muslim hmm. if you want your kids to speak English all day move to England. hth.

Is it just me who hasn't a clue what this post is about?

@islaboots some posters were claiming earlier in the thread that there would be outrage if a Muslim child wasn't allowed to speak their home language in the plauground. I was rolling my eyes because this is untrue and gave an example from where I live of children.

I really can't understand why you want your children to be able to speak English in the playground, OP? It is so obviously that they need to learn Welsh and practice it. Do you really think that Welsh is such a meagre language that primary school children have totally mastered it? My four-year-old arrived in Dublin without a word of English and by five spoke "perfect" English, if you can call the vocabulary of a five-year-old "perfect".

But I hate this distain for minority languages, Castilian speakers are the same with their minority languages and then complain that the local people don't like them.

I live in a Welsh speaking area of Wales. There are English medium schools. Lots of them. If you chose to send your child to a Welsh medium school, they are going to speak Welsh. The quickest way to learn a language is total immersion in it.
If you don't like it, take them out and go somewhere else

If you have chosen a Welsh speaking school for your children you should accept that they will be encouraged to speak that language for the entire day

FFS will no one listen to the poor woman when she keeps pointing out there are no English schools to send them to!!

OP. YANBU. And well done to your DC for being fluent in Welsh. That is quite an achievement.

Strictly speaking, I don’t think it is legal to force kids to speak the local language outside of lessons. It doesn’t happen everywhere (my trilingual kids go to French school and speak whatever they like in the playground). Furthermore as a linguist I’ll stick my neck out and say it is counterproductive to force matters.

Repeat offenders for speaking their 1st language during their break time?.... Could you imagine the uproar if you asked a Muslim child to stop speaking Hindu in an English school during lunch?!

Pedant alert

Muslim is a religion. Muslims speak many languages.

Hindu is another religion, again Hindus speak many languages.

OP
Are there any monolingual children in the school? Or children who don't speak English at home?

I totally agree with not speaking English in the classroom, I'm not so sure about in the playground. I can understand the rule if the aim is to achieve fluency, you need to be using the language in social situations as well as the classroom.

All 4 of mine are in Welsh school and they were always reminders to speak Welsh in school. This helps develop their Welsh which we encouraged as we are English speaking at home. We choose Welsh school for them over a English school so totally expected them to speak Welsh at all times at school. It must be hard if there is no English school to put them in but the more Welsh they speak the better they will become at it.

Somebody mentioned not doing English until year 4 mine were the same but we read at home in English and now they are all secondary school they are doing great in English and Welsh so has not some them any harm.

In London, I have never worked in a school which banned home languages in the classroom.

I have taught many, many Muslim students, most of whom are bilingual. They have spoken Bengali (heritage from Bangladesh) Urdu, Punjabi, (Pakistan) Farsi (Iran, also known as Persian) Dari and Pashtu (Afghanistan) Arabic ( Yemen, Oman, Saudi, Morocco, Algeria with French too, Egypt Sudan, Indonesian etc)

Being bilingual is a way of using parts of the brain which we often neglect, which support problem solving. It opens doors socially, economically and links people to their cultures.

However, I disagree with not allowing younger children to use a majority home language like English at all at school while they are learning Welsh, although I understand the principle of total emmersion. If you can’t express your feelings, articulate your needs etc yet in Welsh or any other school language, you may have quite a difficult time. And I don’t think anyone should be punished for speaking. Surely encouragement and reward is a better approach?

In classrooms, the teacher should be in control of what languages are used, be it Welsh in Wales or English in somewhere as multi-lingual as London. Sometimes it is very useful to allow students who are more recent arrivals to discuss lesson content in home language with each other to develop their understanding of the topic but that is a teachers call.

However, I agree that the playground is a bit different.

That first sentence should be playground - but actually I’ve never had to ban it in a classroom either because most students with good English will speak in English automatically in the classroom.

Muslim child speaking Hindu? Is that a new language you've discovered?
A Muslim is a person who practices Islam. There are millions of muslims all around the world. Even Welsh muslims!
A Hindu is a person who practices Hinduism. It is NOT a language.
There are also millions of Hindus around the world. Again, even in Wales. People from either religion will speak the language of their country. English, Arabic, Farsi, French, Spanish, Welsh, Greek, Urdu etc etc etc.
If you're going to make a point, Stopshouting, then don't make yourself look stupid, as it just makes everyone laugh out loud!

Tinyhands thank you for giving me a laugh

“Fyi Muslims speak Arabic.” FYI - yes some Muslims speak Arabic, however a lot do not, my Turkish friends are Muslims, however speak Turkish as their first language.

Yes there are some monolingual children (only a couple) and the vast majority don't speak English at home. Welsh is very much the first language of the majority of children here.

For the 1000 time there is no English alternative school in the whole county at primary level. I cannot simply send them to an english school even if I wanted to (which I don't).

Can I also repeat that I have no issue with school encouraging children to speak welsh in the playground. I agree it's a good thing which helps gain fluency. My issue is being 'punished' for speaking English. My knowledge of psychology is basic but surely you should be rewarding the desirable behaviour (speaking welsh) and ignoring the undesirable behaviour (speaking english)?

Personally I feel that playtimes are the children's downtime where they should be able to speak whichever language they want. It just doesn't sit right with me to tell children to stop speaking English during playtime and I'm generally curious if in other more multicultural schools children are told off for speaking their native language during playtimes?

@ChiefClerkDrumnkott clywch clywch!

I have the same opinion and experience as her. My Welsh has got me almost every job I've ever had - ok so most of them have been in Wales but, you know, people do work here too. I have school friends who are on the board of high st banks, running media organisations, in rock bands which have sell out world tours etc. We did ok by having to speak Welsh whilst at school. It's hardly a hardship.

I have two dcs who are bilingual.
I would expect them to speak the language of the school, sorry.
Yes there is an issue with the fact that it does basically exclude some children.
But they will also want them to be as fluent in welsh as possible. And this won’t work if they speak English at the dirst opportunity.

Fwiw, when my dcs started school, they always always spoke our home language at home between them. But by the time they were in Y6 and 3, they were speaking English with each other.
Think about it, if a welsh family was living in England and only spoke welsh at home, would you expect the children to speak English or welsh whilst at school??

Hairy at that sort age, I wouod NOT ignore bad behaviour and only encourage good behaviour.
Fair enough when they are toddlers, but at some point, they need to be told off.
Playtime is still school time so therefore they should speak welsh.

Btw I get how this could be hard for your dcs if they are used to speak english together. You tend to just switch to the language that you normal use.
However, I also know it’s hard to switch back to the home language (minority language?) when you are surrounded/learning in a different language. I wouod see their willingness to speak English as a sign they are not confortable in welsh, that welsh is still a weak point for them so I would really want to push that for them.

It is slightly different tough - in an English school in England, your emphasis may be to support a home language in the playground because the more likely problem is children never using it and losing that skill. Whereas in Welsh medium schools, you are fighting for the use of a uk minority language which belongs to that area. My experience of teaching is in England- so I am not sure of the argument behind punishing English speaking. There must be reasons but it doesn’t sit that well with me either OP.

@mozzybites I think there is a difference between speaking a minority language in a mainstream language school and speaking the mainstream language in a specialist language medium school.

this ^

There is a difference between not yet fluent children making themselves understood to people who share their minority language and two children, who may have picked up on their parent's frustration with the approach to the local language, speaking the language which has largely replaced the language this specialist language school is seeking to maintain.

OP can you not see that that your support for them speaking English in a welsh school, which is trying to provide a welsh language environment, is at the least, insensitive?

@IfyouseeRitaMoreno And well done to your DC for being fluent in Welsh. That is quite an achievement.

An achievement which may in no small part be due to the school's insistence on speaking welsh inside school premises?

How are they being punished OP?

You say ‘told off’ what does this entail? If it’s as simple as ‘Jack remember use Welsh not English’ Then I think that’s a) not a punishment and b) it’s unreasonable to expect teachers not to use verbal reminders - these aren’t punishments.

It’s impossible to say whether YABU without you staying what punishment your child have received for using English, but essentially if it’s a school rule like then I’d expect teachers to be able to say ‘speak in welsh’ In the same way they might say ‘tie your hair back’ or ‘wear black shoes’.
Additionally it’s unlikely your children are as fluent as you claim if they feel the need to use English to express themselves, even if just at break/lunchtimes. Additionally there may we’ll be other children who are struggling with the use of Welsh and require greater immersion - your kids using English may hinder the progress of others.

You might be better off supporting the school who are likely trying to provide an environment conducive to your and other children passing exams than being outraged at a verbal reminder from a teacher