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Original poster

Grenfell firefighters

77 replies

longwayoff · 28/06/2018 22:18

I am feeling very sad for the brave firefighters who arriving at Grenfell, must have known that it was going to be beyond them yet did the best they could as they always do. Listening to some of their testimony is heartbreaking, what an impossible task they faced that night. I'm sure this will haunt all of them. My concern is that there will be an attempt to offload blame onto the fire service for the unavoidable deaths which happened due to the complete failure of the local authority with regard to its tenant responsibilities. If this occurs, how can we support them?

OP posts:
SheerKhan · 28/06/2018 22:22

I don't know where you get this from. It will not happen. Nobody will blame the firefighters. They did their best.

Fruitcorner123 · 28/06/2018 22:23

I don't think that ultimately anyone will blame them. It's just the nature of the enquiry that they have to look at every possibility. They were following standard safety advice. It is still the standard advice to stay in your flat rather than trying to leave the building.

I honestly don't think anyone does or will blame the fire service and yes I agree it must be a hard burden for them to bear and desperately hope they are being given the best counselling and support.

silverpenguin · 28/06/2018 22:23

Who'd work on the front line of anything. Social workers, midwives, teachers, police, firefighters. Pay is rubbish and you get all the blame when things go wrong.

siwel123 · 28/06/2018 22:24

The blame lies with the council and the cladding company.
I don't think many people if any are saying the firefighters are to blame?

silverpenguin · 28/06/2018 22:25

They've launched a criminal inquiry into the "stay put" advice so at this stage we can't be sure the fire serve won't get the blame.

50shadesofgreyismylaundry · 28/06/2018 22:26

I agree with you OP. I don't think they will ultimately get the blame but some of the reporting of their evidence to the enquiry was very questionable in my opinion. It must be very traumatic and stressful for them.

Buster72 · 28/06/2018 22:27

No firefighter will be blamed. But there will need to be a look into policies and procedures and if they can be improved they will be. That is the point of an inquiry.

glintandglide · 28/06/2018 22:29

We don’t yet know whether any responsibility lies with the fire service. That’s what the inquest is for

TheVanguardSix · 28/06/2018 22:39

I think the ‘stay put’ policy is rightly under scrutiny. But who could EVER have assumed that fire was going to go the way it did? That stay put policy was put into place when Grenfell was a concrete block, a building that didn’t yet have the cladding which made it so hazardous. They were relying on an old policy that didn’t work with the refurbished block. And they learned this in the worst way possible, those poor firefighters. But to place any blame on those brave and mighty men and women fighting those flames would be disgraceful. Grenfell was a behemoth of a blaze. They weren’t equipped. If you don’t have the aerial ladders, you’re beaten.

It was an honour to hug and shake hands with a few of those who’d fought their hardest to put that fire out. It was incredibly emotional. Brave as they are, such an experience breaks the human heart and spirit.
I have nothing but the highest respect for those firefighters.

LighthouseSouth · 28/06/2018 23:33

Yes op
The first time I saw a report on the questioning of a firefighter, I realised they were trying to shift blame

Hopefully social media will ensure it doesn't succeed.

HelenaDove · 28/06/2018 23:43

It wont.

HelenaDove · 28/06/2018 23:45

skwawkbox.org/2018/06/28/grenfell-firefighter-dowden-targeted-by-convicted-7-7-cyber-stalker/

This is also one of the twitter accounts thats been trolling the Grenfell survivors for the past year I copied and pasted some of her tweets into the early Grenfell threads.

HelenaDove · 28/06/2018 23:48

Before Grenfell A Hidden History is being repeated on BBC2 at 12.50am for anyone interested who may still be up.

Sparklesocks · 29/06/2018 00:36

They’re not to blame but I bet those that are (the council, and those who agreed the cladding) will try and shift it that way.

Similar to Hillsborough when they tried to blame the fans.

HelenaDove · 29/06/2018 01:03

On the v. early threads some of us feared that this would be attempted.

Thing is its not 1989 anymore. The digital age and social media has completely changed the landscape.

So i dont think the attempt of deflection will be successful.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 29/06/2018 01:37

Why would any blame or responsibility lay with the firefighters. They did the best they could in an impossible situation.
One thing thst has always confused me. Why was the fridge model not recalled or checked over to see if they were all unsafe.
Apologies if they have been and I've missed it. Any item going on with the risk of or going on fire is a terrifying cause for concern, but especially a fridge. I didn't even think thst was possible. I mean it's not like any other electrical product where you can switch it off before you go to bed, is it.
Apologies for the slight derail. Mind you same subject different topic, I suppose.

HelenaDove · 29/06/2018 01:43

Apparently it has been checked over and no recall is needed.

HelenaDove · 29/06/2018 01:44

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44125844

notangelinajolie · 29/06/2018 01:45

Bloody hero's the lot of them.

BoomBoomsCousin · 29/06/2018 02:28

It's possible that the fire service could have done things differently. Changed their advice more quickly when the fire started making its way up the building via the cladding. Made checks on the building and provided different advice to the housing association regarding evacuation procedures. And it may be that it would have made no difference, that they wouldn't have been able to save any more lives by changing advice, that the safety checks were not instrumental in the disaster or that because of the fraudulent way cladding had been designated "safe", there was no way for them to anticipate the way the fire would have spread and so no good reason for them to have changed their advice. We don't know because the inquiry isn't over.

Even if these things are true and the Fire Service could have done a bit better, that doesn't take away from the fact the men and women who went into that burning building saved lives and do one of the scariest and bravest jobs there are. And even if there are some improvements to be made, they are still deserving of our respect and gratitude.

mugOfCoffee · 29/06/2018 02:38

Try this before you say the local authority completely failed the residents. It seemes to have been more a failure of regulatino of building standards, or at most firefighting command, rather than LA or firefighters

www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n11/andrew-ohagan/the-tower

HelenaDove · 29/06/2018 02:47

Mugofcoffee the residents constantly reported shoddy dangerous workmanship for years prior to the fire. They were ignored their fears were minimized and they were threatened with legal action to keep quiet.

Power surges in 2013 were causing electrical appliances like toasters to blow up.

HelenaDove · 29/06/2018 02:50

The LRB has published a couple of letters highly critical of O Hagens piece including someone featured in the piece who feels she was lied to and his condescending reply.

www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n12/letters