Cultural appropriation

[Londonerlove]

AIBU to be totally annoyed by cultural appropriation.
I read this today and though wtf!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-44572555

I’m not a fan of kim but if she wants her hair in braids she can have her hair in braids?

Shouldn’t this be praised rather than attacked?
Is eating pasta cultural appropriation?

I’m not trying to disregard the views of others. I completely understand what they are saying but my point is, if we continue on this road surely we are leading to a bigger divide in cultures? Something people have been fighting against for years.

Ps @tacolover I did not say that the purpose of dreads were to look cool, it was merely an example.
Also this is tricky ground as it is technically a religion. If I convert to Islam can I wear a hijab or would that be cultural appropriation? If I convert to Christianity can I wear the cross?

The reason I gave that example @tacolover is because I know a man who is white, has dreads and adopts the rustafarian way of life.
I also know another man, early twenties, who wears dreads, likes a smoke but hasn’t got a clue about the rustafarian way of life. For him it is a fashion staple.
I went to school with a girl (mixed race) who had beautiful dreads but they were purely a fashion staple as well. She was a very close friend and still is btw. But she no longer has dreads.

Looks like everyone is forgetting that Kim is married with children to a black man. Surely it is now her own adopted culture and not appropriation?

If not then the family in the below article should be berated as well and not praised. They are doing exact same thing but the response they get is very positive...

Why are people sharing this photo? - www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-44534547

Tacolover if all white people who wear dreads need to understand and appreciate black culture, what about the white homeless men with dreads? What rules must they follow?
White homeless men I assume have dreads because they don't have access to other ways of maintaining their hair. This isn't cultural appropriation because they aren't taking a part of black culture with no thought to it's background to use it for fashion. They are wearing dreads because they may not have another option. And hippies wearing dreads without any research into it aren't any more acceptable than any other white person taking part of a culture without any research.

Excellent posts LeahJack. I'm still waiting to hear why the hippies/ferals of my youth who were protesting logging by living in the bush and dreading their hair to reflect their stylised neglect/roughing it is Black Cultural Appropriation.
Taking part of a culture that causes racial discrimination for millions without knowing the background of it isn't excused because you're fighting for a good cause. And as for 'still waiting' there's this thing called sleep, sorry if that inconveniences you

So let's get this straight, it's irrelevant that there are clear examples of where fairer haired women are being oppressed by other races as that's just "discrimination" because the perpetrators of the oppression aren't the one's who are emulating their style? I would think that this is true at an individual level but are we talking about individuals, nationalities or races? So if a Sunni woman in Iraq who was unconnected to the oppression of the yazadis dyed her hair lighter she would be guilty of cultural appropriation? What about a black woman in Zimbabwe who emulates white fashion/hair styles?
You've completely missed my point. I said discrimination instead of racism but I meant the same thing, thought that was clear. There is no big issue of cultural appropriation in Iraq towards Yazadis because they're not oppressed because of having straight hair/lighter hair, many others in Iraq also have naturally lighter hair, so a Sunni woman dyeing her hair wouldn't be cultural appropriation. Yazadis are facing racism because of their lighter skin. That is very different to the cultural appropriation that black people face in the West because they are directly discriminated against for having dreads or afros. That's why I said that your example was irrelevant to cultural appropriation, which is the subject of this thread. I didn't say they didn't face racism.

Just a side note but does this kind of theory also hold true for people with red/ginger hair? I know it isn't cultural appropriation if another white person dyes their hair red but a lot of these arguments about the styles being traditionally viewed as undesirable and the favouring of people who artificially create the hair type made me make the connection. Although lots of people (including me) love red hair there has definitely been a bit of a stigma attached to it in the past.
Sorry but this is a bit ridiculous. Many types of appearance may be disliked in general or seen to be uncool; for example also see the stigma attached to men wearing skinny jeans, long hair on men, facial hair on women, etc(all wrong to discriminate because of this obviously). Red hair is no different to these because there isn't a difference in who can 'have' red hair. People aren't being told that they are too unprofessional having red hair in the workplace while others 'get away' with wearing red hair. People with red hair mught face a stigma(a very small one nowadays) but nothing really happens to them because of it.

@tacolover are you from the States or Britain?

Hmm, the slave trade operated by Muslims wasn't really comparable in scale to the slave trade operated by the British and the Americans though

I doubt this is true, it is certainly not provable, because slave trading would have gone on for thousands of years undocumented in the Middle East, Asia.
And even at the time the slaves were shipped by westerners it was the Arabs ( i believe) and the tribal chiefs who made the would be slaves available.

Your obviously going to ask why I asked that question. Might get slated for this but I see a huge difference in discrimination and racism between the two countries. I feel racism and discrimination is much more active in the States than in Britain.
In Britain I see no discrimination against dreads or afros? I genuinely think we praise that hairstyle. When a black wears their natural hair all they receive is praise and compliments. I’m from a diverse area so maybe that is why. Where I live is mixture of deprived backgrounds along with wealthy privileged backgrounds. Many white people are from deprived backgrounds as many black people are from privileged backgrounds.

I’ll tell you what pisses me off. People slagging off muslims/being racist about Arabs, then getting a tattoo in Arabic! That is a prime example of appropriation. Don’t slag me off then take what you want from my culture!!!!

And the Irish people claiming appropriation, unless it’s from an English person, don’t be stupid. You’re white, you have privilege therefore and you are not oppressed anymore.

Also this is tricky ground as it is technically a religion. If I convert to Islam can I wear a hijab or would that be cultural appropriation? If I convert to Christianity can I wear the cross?
If you know enough about a religion that you want to convert to it then I'm sure you know enough about the background of the religious items you're wearing. If you are part of a religion then you are a part of the culture that those religious people have. It wouldn't be cultural appropriation because of this.

"Looks like everyone is forgetting that Kim is married with children to a black man. Surely it is now her own adopted culture and not appropriation?
If not then the family in the below article should be berated as well and not praised. They are doing exact same thing but the response they get is very positive... "

It depends if you actually know where what you're wearing comes from/what the background is. Being married to someone doesn't automatically mean you can take parts of a culture because being married to someone doesnt equate learning about a culture properly. We can't possibly know whether Kim has done research into it or not. But the two situations you've shown are very different, because the second is a family talking about multicultural families and it's much more evident that the man knows about the culture of his wife and has learnt about it. It's not the exact same thing at all because it's easy to see from the article that he isn't just putting on clothes from a culture that he knows nothing about, and that he knows about the culture of his family. We don't know how much Kim knows about the culture of her husband but she's never said anything about his culture of having a multicultural family and learning about each other.

So much hate for white people being ‘privileged’. My background was far from privileged. I came from a borough where I was one of eight children in my class who were white. There were two English children in my class, not including me.
No one is claiming that not so long ago there was a huge amount of racism but we’ve come so far, why regress? Cultural appropriation is causing a regression and divide between cultures.

I think anyone who gives a rats ass what other human beings dress or do their hair need more in their lives.

To me it’s total bollocks. Culture is what an individual believes it to be and it’s anyones right to adopt any culture and lifestyle they choose as long as it’s legal.

Colour and gender are facts so I find people self ID and even dafter choosing their colour silly but if they are not hurting anyone else so be it.

People care far too much about what other people choose to do with their bodies.

Well the thing is that these aspects of cultures, in this example braids. Have been worn by poc for centuries, they have been ridiculed by oppressing cultures and had racist remarks made. But when celebrities wear them in pop culture it becomes a ‘new’ ‘quirky’ ‘in’ fashion. But why is it that it’s only seen that way when white people sport these fashions?

This leads to businesses such as ‘the braid bar’ in London being set up aimed at young white teenage girls, they pay the overpriced prices for what they see as a quirky fashion, whilst they’re have been Afro/black hair salons struggling to make enough to keep afloat and stay in business.

This kind of cultural appropriation isn’t reducing racism, it’s highlighting and showing how ignorant and ingrained institutionalised racism is. That it’s still present in society.

The harm comes from the fact that when celebrities wear these styles, the racism is ‘kept alight’. I see it as a more passive form of oppression. It’s very hard to notice if you aren’t personally affected.

I also can see how people aren’t recognising the harm. It’s true, people aren’t exactly being killed by this. But please consider the points I’ve raised.

Your obviously going to ask why I asked that question. Might get slated for this but I see a huge difference in discrimination and racism between the two countries. I feel racism and discrimination is much more active in the States than in Britain.
In Britain I see no discrimination against dreads or afros? I genuinely think we praise that hairstyle. When a black wears their natural hair all they receive is praise and compliments. I’m from a diverse area so maybe that is why. Where I live is mixture of deprived backgrounds along with wealthy privileged backgrounds. Many white people are from deprived backgrounds as many black people are from privileged backgrounds.
I'm also in Britain. I think that there is maybe less racism in your area but it is definitely there all over Britain. Black people may be praised where you live but it's prevalent in many areas. And there are definitely less black people with privilege than white people across Britain.

If you’re white of course your privileged. You’re less likely to get shot in the US by the police for a start !!!! No one is denying that white people arent poor, from disadvantaged backgrounds. But by virtue of being white you already have an advantage versus a person of colour

@tacolover when I met my partner I laid down some ground rules of my culture. What to do and what not to do. I assume all couples will have that convo.

If uninformed people take part in cultural appreciation, surely people become more interested and intrigued, therefore research specific cultures, leading to cultural appreciation rather than appropriation.

Do you not think both appreciation and appropriation have been confused as one. Why does it automatically have to be appropriation?

"So much hate for white people being ‘privileged’. My background was far from privileged. I came from a borough where I was one of eight children in my class who were white. There were two English children in my class, not including me.
No one is claiming that not so long ago there was a huge amount of racism but we’ve come so far, why regress? Cultural appropriation is causing a regression and divide between cultures."

Ah, this again
Having white privilege doesn't mean your life isn't hard. It means that the problems you face in your life won't be caused by the colour of your skin. The colour of your skin is not going to stop you from gaining opportunities. You can be disadvantaged and still be privileged in other ways.
And for a huge amount of racism a long time ago? There's a huge amount of racism today, let alone decades ago the fact that you think we've come so far and that lots of racism is in the past shows the fact that you have white privilege; the colour of your skin means that you can't even see the the extent to which racism is prevalent in Britain.

OP yes Kim does get criticised but she gets praised by fashion magazines like "Cosmopolitan", I've seen articles with titles such as "How to do Kim K style boxer braids" etc. It's insinuating that Kim/other white celebs are the ones who started a trend for braids when black people have been wearing them for centuries but they don't get called trendy, they get called "ghetto."

The Kardashians are classic examples of privileged rich white women who fetishize black culture and black men, let's be honest. They deserve criticism.

@strongmummy & tacolover even more reason to stop the breeding of division!
We can all agree that in the past 50 years this has come on a long way. Why should we allow cultural appropriation to halt that.

Do we want integration or cultural appropriation?

The Celts braided their hair. Armenian women braided their hair in a Greek fashion yon time ago.

I saw an article about hoped earrings becoming cultural appropriation then wondered what European Roma people thought about it. Roma braided their hair too.
There is a lot to hair and it's significance but we all need to be a little less critical of what we are doing with our hair. The are much bigger issues out tjere

@tacolover omg 😮 you are telling me we haven’t come a long way. If you continue to be so closed minded then there will never be progression.

What I’m saying to you is that in the area I grew up in, which was predominantly black I had the opposite experience. Tbh I knew no different back then so it didn’t phase me.

*@tacolover when I met my partner I laid down some ground rules of my culture. What to do and what not to do. I assume all couples will have that convo. *

Why do you assume that all couples would have that conversation? Many don't.

If uninformed people take part in cultural appreciation
Well it can't be cultural appreciation if they have no idea what it is! How can you have appreciation for a culture if you have no idea of the background of the cultural items you wear?

Do you not think both appreciation and appropriation have been confused as one. Why does it automatically have to be appropriation?
It doesn't automatically have to be appropriation. But it's obvious when someone doesn't know the background of what they're wearing and they plaster it all over the internet calling it 'oriental' because they don't know whether the cultural dress is Chinese or Japanese, randomly calling cultural items 'vintage' etc.

@londonlover I don’t want people being racist bastards and then picking and choosing what they then take from the culture they’re slagging off coz they think it’s cool!!!

*@tacolover omg 😮 you are telling me we haven’t come a long way. If you continue to be so closed minded then there will never be progression. *
Ah, I'm closed minded. Coming from the person who denies that they are privileged
We have come a long way obviously. But you're suggesting that there isn't a lot of racism today and that accusations of cultural appropriation is continuing racism or something. Cultural appropriation is continuing racism, not others pointing it out. Asking people to research the culture that causes others to be racially discriminated against before taking part in it isn't halting progression. And it isn't stopping integration either; white people using others' culture for fashion without researching it is integration in what way exactly? White people being praised for having dreads while black people are called dirty, messy etc. doesn't benefit anyone but white people.

My ds used to busk with a didgeridoo. I became uncomfortable at the sight of a privileged white boy in a prosperous English market town making money playing an instrument sacred to a race practically exterminated by people like him in near living memory. This was not something that occurred to me when I bought him the didgeredoo and admired the painted symbols-which we did not begin to understand.

A lot of this hate seems to be projected at women.

Seems to me it’s just another way of criticising and trying to control what women wear etc and many other women are swallowing this mysogyny and calling it cultural miss appropriation.

You are doing the daily mails work for them.