To think Lord Sugar should be sacked from the BBC for his tweet?

[BlondeSea]

Earlier today Lord Sugar tweeted a photo of the Senegal football team with a caption along the lines of "I recognise these from the beaches in Marbella selling sunglasses!"

He doctored the image to add pictures of sunglasses. People challenged him online and he insisted it was funny and refused to apologise however since then he has apologised - he's obviously been forced to.

I won't add the image here, it's now been taken down but you can see it if you google it. AIBU to think this is disgusting, not funny, and he should be fired from the BBC?

I've got to admit that advanced search is interesting on some posters at the moment -just to see what their other views are.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/21/alan-sugar-senegal-joke-racist-sack-bbc-tweet

I didn't realise Sugar was a member of the House of Lords (I guess the title gives it away...but I've not lived in the UK for 25 years and some things pass me by!)

it really is reprehensible.

I don’t see anything wrong with the people who sell sunglasses and handbags at the beach.

Selling counterfeit goods is illegal. Spain is in the EU, not some non EU country with more lax laws. Someone selling counterfeit goods in other parts of the EU would be prosecuted. Why are the beach sellers treated differently?

A number of reasons, I suspect, Pacer from not enough money for policing, to a realisation that this puts food on the table.
However, that has no relevance to Sugar's racist tweet.

Someone selling counterfeit goods in other parts of the EU would be prosecuted. Why are the beach sellers treated differently?

First of all, that isn’t true at all. Just as one example, there are stalls and even actual shops all over London selling fakes and the police appear to turn a blind eye. Presumably the reasons are the same there as in Spain. Maybe lack of funding, maybe a sense that this is a very low-priority crime, and so on.

Why do you bring the issue of policing up? Can you explain why you feel it is relevant to this conversation about Alan Sugar sending a racist tweet?

It was racist, I can't believe there are people defending it.

I don’t see anything wrong with the people who sell sunglasses and handbags at the beach.

Well, I see a few things that could be wrong, tbh. But most importantly? They're so annoying and pushy...

Walking up to you, pushing their goods towards / into your face, not accepting a 'no', making rude comments etc.

I didn't really experience this before going abroad with my DH, tbh. (maybe he just looks like an easier target than I do...? Idk.)

But I don't see how this relates to this (imo extremely inappropriate) 'joke'.

The issue is that the joke only works if you comply with the stereotype that all sunglasses sellers are losers

So, just blankly stating that Alan sugar is racist also means you may well be applying racist stereotypes to black people who sell sunglasses

Complicated this group politics stuff innit

mooncuplanding
Complicated this group politics stuff innit

For you, seemingly.

I'm normally in Camp Everyone-Gets-Offended-Too-Easily-These-Days, but this is really obviously racist. It's literally a joke making fun of people for their skin colour - it doesn't get much more textbook than that. Don't have much of an opinion on whether he should be sacked, though - that's a matter for his employer and their disciplinary policies.

I am usually in psychomath's camp too. But Lord Sugar has taken the absolute piss. As someone who has been very vocal about anti-semitism, it's really deplorable that he would post this, or find it in any way funny.
It is so obviously derogatory and racist, how can anyone not 'get it'?.
If you found it funny, then, even subconsciously, you must feel that yes, all dark skinned African men look the same. Which is fucking RACIST.

Far from complex. The 'joke' uses the long-established racist gag that "[Race X] people all look the same". The premise of his 'joke' is that no matter their individual skills, accomplishments or individual qualities, or how well-publicised/famous they are, all Black men are indistinguishable from each other, and equally insignificant to 'Lord' Sugar.

That’s not the joke though

Black football professionals compared to black sunglasses sellers because he thinks they look like one another

(People compare famous peoples looks to other things all the time btw so this in itself is not unusual)

You can only think that is racist if you believe that it is derogatory to be compared to a group of black sunglasses sellers

Who by definition of the ‘offence’ you have to see as a lesser valued group

So in order to take offence to this, you have to actually be derogatory about the sunglasses sellers

If I thought the sunglasses sellers were of equal value to the footballers, there would be no joke and no accusation of racism.

What’s interesting is that people are defending the footballers being ‘degraded’

That’s not the joke though

Black football professionals compared to black sunglasses sellers because he thinks they look like one another

(People compare famous peoples looks to other things all the time btw so this in itself is not unusual)

But he's not saying that an individual black person looks like another individual black person. That's not the joke.

The joke is that a bunch of black men are indistinguishable from another bunch of black men, and that he sees them all as the same. It doesn't matter that they are footballers, he doesn't recognise their differences or anything about them - he just sees them the same as a bunch of other black men that he has experience of.

trial by the virtual signallers on the internet. again. Zzzz....

So in order to take offence to this, you have to actually be derogatory about the sunglasses sellers

If I thought the sunglasses sellers were of equal value to the footballers, there would be no joke and no accusation of racism.

What’s interesting is that people are defending the footballers being ‘degraded’

Not degraded, but why can't he see people for their individual achievements? The footballers for theirs and the sunglasses sellers for their? He can't, because to him all black people are the same. That's the joke.

And, if you read the comments there were some people being rude about the sunglass sellers. It's not a huge leap to think he was trying to degrade the footballers if this is how many people think. But, even the part of the joke I mentioned above is enough for it to be racist.

It’s not necessary to equate any stigma or low social value for the joke to work.
The joke isn’t predicated on “they look like X which is funny because being X is a bad thing”
The joke is simply predicated on “these African footballers and these African beach sellers look the same..... because they’re black”

Obviously selling sunglasses on a beach is a low-prestige, low-income and presumably pretty stressful job, that few people would choose given better options. You know this, mooncuplanding.

The fact there is apparently a disproportionate number of black people doing this kind of work is no reflection on those people or their “value”, as you put it. Instead it is evidence of the very same structural oppression Alan Sugar is contributing to with this tweet.

Unless the logical conclusion of the “it shows your own prejudices because you think being compared to the bag sellers is a bad thing so you’re the racist, not lord sugar who’s actually being sweet and complimentary” argument is “saying all black people look a like is only racist if you think bring black is a good thing, otherwise why would it be racist to say they look like another lovely black person”

Ugh

Brain fail

“...Unless you think being black is a bad thing...”

Obviously selling sunglasses on a beach is a low-prestige, low-income and presumably pretty stressful job, that few people would choose given better options. You know this, mooncuplanding.

This.

Mooncup do you think that Alan Sugar sees sunglasses sellers as of equal standing to professional footballers? Of course he doesn't, therefore he was being racist. If you saw them as equal the 'joke' wouldn't be as 'funny' would it?

And yes, just the comparison itself of black sunglasses sellers with black footballers, based on nothing more than the colour of their skin is racist in itself, regardless of how people perceive sunglasses sellers (which is, in general, in a derogatory way).

do you think that Alan Sugar sees sunglasses sellers as of equal standing to professional footballers? Of course he doesn't, therefore he was being racist. If you saw them as equal the 'joke' wouldn't be as 'funny' would it?

That was my point.
And everyone claiming racism is therefore thinking the same

And yes, just the comparison itself of black sunglasses sellers with black footballers, based on nothing more than the colour of their skin is racist in itself, regardless of how people perceive sunglasses sellers (which is, in general, in a derogatory way).

I’m not sure how you can extraopolate actual racism from this. I see he is trying to put down / banter with a competing team by comparing them to what he sees as low life’s.

However to say he hates black people and sees them as inferior (definition of racism) is extrapolating somewhat

More likely he’s being a snob about people’s line of work

What about his tweet with the Chinese child? It's more likely he's just a racist. He's certainly doing a very good job of appearing like one.