To think 9-5 attendance at work is becoming a bit unnecessary?

[user1485342611]

With modern technology an awful lot of jobs could now be done remotely cutting out long commutes etc and also giving people a bit of flexibility around the hours they work.

Yet the default position in general seems to be that everyone should be in the office, between x hour and y hour, 5 days a week.

AIBU to think that this is becoming less necessary and far more workers could work from home at least part of the time, using remote access and being contactable by phone when needed?

I disagree as it's clear to see from the number of people on here who suggest it as a way of solving childcare issues

but it can resolve childcare issues.

I work 9-5.30. If I worked from home full time and had a pre-school child, they could go to nursery from 8-6, easily. But if you add in 1 hour 30 minutes commute at either end it becomes impossible. Either you have to employ a nanny (in my case they'd earn more than I do) or try to find a childminder who can accommodate commuting (not very frequent as they also want a work-life balance).

If you are suggesting that people would work at home AND have their children at home, I see what you mean.

I haven't done 9-5 for about 20 years now I am lucky, mostly work from home, I find it breeds resentment with people clock watching and now DD has MH issues I need to be around for her; most employers wouldn't allow that - but I think its a bit of a downer for staff who have no choice and provide services like medicine, building, shops etc. This sort of choose your own hours lifestyle is only open to the self employed or those in particular industries.

We're allowed to do whatever we want really, as long as it all adds up at the end of the week. I usually prefer a later start (10ish) and a later finish (6ish). A colleague starts at 6am and leaves at 2.

It's great to have the option.

I gave flexible working. 3 days a week, term time only and 2 days a week from home. It's works very well for me and I get so much more done at home that at work. I track the work I do (there was a period where I felt I wasn't achieving much and I wanted to understand why) and I can clearly see that on my day in the office I achieve about 2-3 hours of work (due to my manager non stop talking) and on the days I work at home I achieve at least 7 hours focused work. My children have a childminder and it saves so much money without a commute and I get to see them more and am better rested.

I applied for a job (before this one) which was similar - term time only but 15 hours a week. It was a consultancy and every single employee wfh and with their children. I was actively encouraged that it was ok to do the work in the evenings and around naps. It made me feel quite twitchy because I don't think I'm that disciplined, plus it sounded exhausting!

In my previous role it was very strict. No flexible working or wfh. Theoretically we had the systems to do it but the manager wanted everyone visible and to pitch in and help others. Was hard going and not something I'd want to go back to now I have flexibility. Work life balance is so important.

i 100% agree. would be so much better for the planet and human life if we could chop out a vast chunk of those sat in rush hour traffic!

Yes and no.

Before maternity leave I was contracted to be in the office 9-5:30, however the company I work for were very supportive of working from home sometimes if it suited you. I found it quite difficult not having that face to face contact with colleagues, a lot of stuff can be dealt with over email/phone but often its not as effective as being sat round a desk talking things over.

I've now been offered a work from home role when I return which will work brilliantly with childcare but I'm worried about actually getting stuff done if I'm not in the office seeing colleagues.

And when my DD went through a very anxious phase about school attendance a couple of years ago my lovely boss allowed me to work at home for months.

It would also be better for community life as people would have more time and energy in the evenings to get involved in things and join local activities and clubs.

If you're arriving home at 7pm drained after a 90 minute commute and still have to get dinner ready then outside activities are hard to pursue.

If you are suggesting that people would work at home AND have their children at home, I see what you mean.

unfortunately it seems very common,look at the number of threads about it - or complaining about the partner who is not doing anything chore-wise when WFH.

It's a shame, it does make life so much easier, but some people are abusing the system and many company refuse the idea.

Often, yes.

If people are using it to take the piss and be unproductive, that's a reason to address it with those people not to stop the home working. There are people who take the piss working in offices, or even are just less productive there than they would be at home, yet nobody sees that as a reason to argue against office work per se. Ridiculous double standards stemming from inherent bias against the idea, and nothing more.

Agree completely. I work from home, I work much better and more efficiently being able to ditch the commute and not be bugged in an office. It also means I have no issue taking calls later at night or early morning for other global teams. In return I have the flexibility I need to pick up and drop off at nursery etc.

It’s win win.

I agree. The type of workers who would arse around at home and do nothing, are the type of workers who arse around in the office and do very little. Tackle them as individuals, make them come into the office every day because they can't be trusted, terminate their contract because they're not delivering - don't just rule out a really good idea because of a few people who will abuse it.

I'm the poster child for flexible working- it works because I am in a job that has massively quantifiable performance targets (likes sales, but it's not) and I work in a team of one, so there's nowhere to hide. However, as a result of the flexibility afforded to me I am very careful to not take the piss and jeopardise a very convenient set up (no-one keeping tabs, can work compressed weeks, compressed months or even a compressed year- I usually take July mostly off, can take an afternoon off and work in the evening etc. ). I appreciate not everyone's job is suitable for my set up but there are definitely more people who could do it that aren't allowed to.

Some time ago I used to work for a big Pharma company which had quite a good set up which was that 10-12 and 2-4 are core hours. Everyone needs to be there. Otherwise you can work the hours you want, although I think you weren't allowed to "count" before 7 or after 7 towards your 35 hours a week. After 35 hours a week you could build up to 2 days Flexi leave so some people used to work long days and have every other Friday off. That was pretty good too.

Lighthouse I think TFL would be against it! Their profits have been lower in the last few years than expected, I saw an article about it and a lot of the commenters thought more remote working might explain part of it. Even if people are just working 1 day a week from home that has a potentially huge impact.

In my organisation there are some definite wfh pisstakers but management don’t care as long as the hours are on the timesheet (even though they were flying on holiday at the time for example)

A bit of snow or a rail strike and our office becomes the marie celeste and manning the fort is annoying for those of us who always make it in

What I really like about my WFH setup is that I can do the hours when I want. I very loosely keep "office hours" but for example I wanted to go out one afternoon last week. I worked in the morning, went out for the afternoon then did a bit of work in the evening. That would have been impossible to do in a 9-5 scenario. My last office was also 1 1/4 hour commute each way so straight away I got back 12.5 hours a week of my own time by no longer needing to do it, that's a full day on it's own. I definitely think it should be more of an option for more people.

I think things will go this way. I have been waiting for a gynae appointment with the consultant and just got a letter to say he will do a telephone consultation on X date between the hours of 9-12. I was initially a bit but this actually suits me better as I don't have the stress of going to the hospital for what is probably just a history taking appointment.

I am a carer and in order to work I would need very flexible hours, preferably a role that facilitates mostly WFH. I really hope that flexible working is on the rise.

@badmotherpukka what do you make of this?

A pp's point about chores is an interesting one. I agree that wfh is "working" and wouldn't expect my self or anyone else to be doing a deep clean of their house in this time! But, I will do things like stick a wash load on, or load/unload the dishwasher, maybe even run the hoover round. Not all at once obviously but some 5 minute chores here and there can easily be done. You are supposed to take regular screen breaks anyway. This has also made my life easier in that I don't have to come home at the end of a long day and do these things.

I'd question the idea that people doing things like chores are abusing the system. Quite apart from the fact that the commuting time is now potentially available for housework, it's potentially possible to do things like empty the dishwasher whilst making a brew, put a load of washing on while you wait 2 minutes for your 11am to get to their desk to ring you, check on the slow cooker etc, without having any impact on productivity or even time worked. In a lot of jobs there is effectively built in nothingness time, even if it's just queueing up for the copier. No reason why at home that can't be used to the employee's advantage.

I appreciate that there are some people who never get time at work to make a drink or do anything other than flat out, and I'm talking about small jobs rather than full house clean. I have seen threads where the expectation that the WFH partner would effectively be available for much of the day for childcare and chores and that is wrong. But actually, being at home can allow for doing bits and bobs without any kind of piss taking. This is even before we consider people who are effectively paid for tasks not hours.

But, I will do things like stick a wash load on, or load/unload the dishwasher, maybe even run the hoover round.

Me too, and honestly, how many people doing desk based jobs take zero breaks during the day? Particularly if you factor in the commute, the home worker probably still does more actual work. I find I work better if shorter bursts anyway.

When you're working from home you're not being disturbed by people coming in for a chat or a moan about something, or being stopped every time you go to the loo by someone wanting to give you a bit of gossip and so on.
You can easily find a few minutes here and there to hang out a wash, empty the dishwasher or tidy up the bathroom. You can also run up to the supermarket at lunchtime and get stuff bought for the dinner.

As you have no commute you can also have dinner ready when your dp gets home.

I think that's the stuff that posters complain about. They come home in the evening and breakfast dishes are in the sink, towels are still on the bathroom floor and a wash has been sitting in the machine all day.

just got a letter to say he will do a telephone consultation on X date between the hours of 9-12.

that's fantastic! Glad some common sense starts to appear in the system, it's such a waste of time for everybody to have to treck for 1 hour or so to the nearest hospital when it's unnecessary.
You can have blood tests or basic tests done locally, and keep the visits to hospitals for genuine procedure.

You can easily find a few minutes here and there to hang out a wash, empty the dishwasher or tidy up the bathroom.

and that's exactly why so many employers are against it. Again, I love working from home and I do it a lot, no one keeps tabs on me, management is only bothered about my results.
Doing house chores instead of commuting is slightly different than doing them whilst you are "working".

Obviously some professions are client facing so it would be impossible.

For the rest of us mere mortals I totally agree with you OP.

And I swear I could do an 8 hour day in 4 hours. Especially at home with no distractions and inane conversation!

Doing house chores instead of commuting is slightly different than doing them whilst you are "working".

Not if you start work when the other person starts their commute but take more breaks during the day. It's just integrating work and life which is what more and more people want to do.

And anyway, if you hit your targets by working 5 days a year, why should your boss care? She's got what she paid for.