to ask if it really IS that bad to stay together for the kids?

[hididdlyhoneighborino]

NC but a regular on here and all I ever see is staying together for the kids is harmful and shows them the wrong kind of relationship etc.

I have initiated separation (children are unaware) but I'm thinking of just staying together for the children instead so that they can have the best opportunities we can give them. They are all young, so on the one hand may not be too affected whilst they're young if we do separate, but if we don't then it's a long time to stay together for them I guess.

If we don't argue around them- is it really that bad? Will they really not know how to show love as adults just because we are not affectionate?

I'm more concerned for the MH of my husband. If you have any personal experience of this as a child I'd be more than welcome to hear them. I grew up with just my dad from age 2, so I don't know any different.

It really depends. An acrimonious, dysfunctional or abusive relationship should always be broken up.

A relationship that has lost it's sparked I think should be worked on if possible. Personally if I could function well with my partner, treat each other with respect and run the family as a team (even if it to work and counselling to get to that point) then I would put the effort in to maintain the relationship until the kids had grown up at least.

I think if you do stay together it has to be with the commitment to work on the relationship so that it's functioning and respectful. There's no point hanging around being bitter and resentful.

As a firm atheist, with no belief whatsoever in the afterlife, and decidedly keen to live the life I have as I please, I can't imagine making a decision of such HUGE consequence to myself for the sake of someone else.

The good opportunities my parents gave me didn't make any difference to the utter hell that was living stuck in the middle of their dead relationship. I cannot tell you how awful it was and how unfair it was to expect children to manage their dysfunction. If your relationship breakdown is amicable then maybe it wouldn't be so bad but if there is animosity please think very carefully. Children are infinitely more observant than you think and they absorb negativity and trauma in ways which can impact them for life. No "opportunity" is payment enough for that.

My best friends parents stayed together for the kids. They never argued but they had separate bedrooms and almost separate lives. Best friend and both of her siblings have struggled greatly with relationships as adults. My friend admits she has no idea what a healthy relationship looks like.

Not worth it in my opinion. Children are far more perceptive than we give them credit for.

The other thing you have to remember is that if you plan to wait til the youngest leave shine and separate then, you will have two possible emotions for your young adults children:

1. They knew all was not well and are glad it’s finally over. You basically failed at hiding your problem from them and they spent their whole childhood with a very dysfunctional relationship model.

2. They has absolutely no idea you were so unhappy and telling them so rocks their world entirely. They had no idea what’s true or who they could trust, and again, they have no healthy relationship model for their own adult lives.

I’ve seen 2) happen to family friends who were all lovely people. There was no abuse and they genuinely tried their best but their kids were completely blindsided and now basically think love is a lie and you can never trust another person to be truly honest with you.

So the best thing to do is either split very amicably and deal with the fallout as it comes. If you really want to stay together, I think that has to be actually trying to repair the relationship and make it lifelong, because lying to your children for two decades that his is what love and happiness looks like is only going to backfire.

Leaves home not leave shine!

Thecats, I hope you only have cats and not children if you think it takes religion to put your own children before yourself.

If your husband has some mental health issues and you don't want to be married to him, then I'd definitely split. Better that he learns to cope, gets other sources of support and perhaps even meets someone who wants to be with him, than soldiering on- he's likely to have difficulties anyway if he's either prone to that or you and he don't have much of a relationship.

Do not sacrifice the children's wellbeing for his mental health. It may be that shorter times with dad might work better if that's the way things are.

I speak as someone whose dad had mh issues and I was mighty relieved when my parents divorced but that wasn't til adulthood. I'd have rather had a childhood without living daily with his issues as it was quite frightening and destabilizing and things were much nicer after he moved out.

My parents did this, and I really wish they hadn't. I've grown up knowing they were/are both miserable and not knowing what a good, respectful relationship looks like - causing me no end of problems in navigating my own relationships and fuelling a lifetime of anxiety.

Please don't.

My parents marriage was always a bit like that. They were together from very young (my dad is dead now) and we’re clearly just rubbing along together for years, they never argued but didn’t particularly speak, my DM was openly annoyed by DDad. He wasn’t a bad person, just a bit useless. There didn’t seem to be much communication, they didn’t socialise together. I knew I didn’t want a relationship like theirs. My DP is very different and I am very happy. I certainly have no difficulty being loving, I am much better at communicating my needs than either of my parents were.

I am glad they stayed together. It gave me stability, I take relationships and commitment very seriously. I see friends packing it in when things get a bit hard whereas we work at our relationship. When Dad died I learnt they actually had plans for retirement (he didn’t make it) and more relationship than I realised which has been interesting.

I know the consensus is generally leave if you’re not happy, but I think there’s something to be said for staying together and making things work, but it depends what the problems are and whether you’re both willing to rub along like that.

I have made the decision to stay for the children.

He's selfish and hard to live with in many ways (what selfish person isn't?), but I would rather live under the same roof so I can see fair play is done by the kids.

If we separated and had 50:50 shared custody, then they would be subjected to his selfishness for half their lives without my protection from it. I'd rather be there for them in that capacity than not.

Plus they are young and dote on their Dad, putting up with his warts because they love him. I believe it would rock them much more if we lived apart. Would they get used to it? Of course they would. Children are adaptable. But would it be the best thing for them? I don't think so.

DH is adamant if we split up he intends to stay alone, so there's not even a hope that someone else would be 'good cop' step-parent for half the week.

It would be different if it was full on DA or something though.

Sounds grim.

Concerned for the MH of your husband? That he won’t cope without you, or have his MH issues been a big factor in your separation?

You only have one life. What makes you think you can’t make a happier life for you and your children as a separated/divorced parent? If they have an unhappy mother, that’s quite a big deal.

There are difficulties with being a single parent. There are difficulties with having a bitter and twisted ExH, as I have. But it is loads better not to be living with him, for them and for me. He loves them, but they would have been witnessing him be cruel and heartless to me all the time and that would have been pure hell.

Only you can know what the pros and cons are, and how severe the breakdown of your marriage is.

My friend (eldest of 4) was knocked sideways when her parents split up within weeks of the youngest leaving home. The parents informed their adult children that they had stayed together for them but felt they didn’t have to live a lie any more.
It rocked my friend to her foundations and made her question her own judgement and view of her childhood.

We don't have MH issues to deal with though.

Someone close to me stayed with her DH who had to give up full time work for MH breakdown, and he is so hard to live with. But she does it because she promised in sickness and in health, and she recognised her children suffer seeing him ill whether they live under the same roof or not.

The decided group strategies for safety when he was psychosomatic, including pairing up so nobody would be left in the house alone with him, a pressure I can't even begin to imagine living under, but when you speak to the kids they're honest that they have such conflict and don't feel comfortable to turf him out because "it could be me". She is displaying such modelling for faithful dependability against all odds, and I'm not sure I could do that myself. I have such respect for her and really wish things were much easier for all of them.

Concerned for the MH of your husband? That he won’t cope without you, or have his MH issues been a big factor in your separation?

I'm terrified that he will become depressed without the family unit and kill himself. I am willing to be as amicable as possible with regards to contact and don't wish to deprive him or be bitter, but of course he will naturally see the children less and he will struggle with this greatly.
It is rare that he speaks about his emotions, he has done a few times over the time we have been together about depression and body dysmorphia but that was in a time before we met (and the dysmorphia extended into our relationship a little too).

Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it.

What I can't understand, is why you would tell your children the real reason you split? I understand that probably makes me an awful person to extend the lie, but I'd rather think of something else to tell them than that everything they knew was false.

God I can't believe I even just typed this, this is a stupid idea.

My DH's parents stayed together for the sake of him and his DB. They split up when the boys went off to uni. They will figure it out, even if you don't tell them. It really messed up my DH's view of his childhood and relationships in general for years. Don't do it.

thecatsthecats that's not atheism, that's hedonism.

Atheists are often more ethical than some versions of religion where doing god's will justifies all kinds of wrong doing, or where you can hurt who you want as long as you have a good pray and apologise to your diety afterwards and go to church regularly.

I'm an atheist. This is all there is. There's no hidden camera, no second go, no immortal daddy to put everything right if we mess up. Nobody's watching. The only immortality is in the memories of those who survive you.

That's exactly why I put my kids before myself and want to change things for the better in the small areas I can influence, and stand up for what I think is right. If humans don't help each other through and stand up for weaker humans no bugger else will.

Everything doesn't happen for a reason, the meek won't inherit the earth.

We are all there is, which is exactly why what we do to others matters.

That doesn't mean OP should stay for the children - that depends on what kind of situation she is staying in and what headspace she and her husband are in.

Hedonism isn't the same as atheism though.

If you stay, can you please make sure your children do not grow up being frightened to upset daddy or always treading on eggshells in case he gets depressed and kills himself. This is a horrible way to live as a child and leaves you with a life-long fear of uncertainty.

If he has such problems, then I don't think keeping the children in the family unit will 'protect' him, he may well become depressed and kill himself from within it and this is just about as grim as it can be.

You aren't staying together for the children at all in this scenario, you are staying for him, to protect his mental health. I don't think that's a good idea and, knowing how I grew up, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather separate very early on, give him access and support him to stabilize his own mental health, and that's it.

No need to sacrifice three people for one.

I grew up with parents in a pretty unhappy relationship. They lived and still do live pretty much separate lives. I think they love each other but are fundamentally incompatible in every way but at the same time oddly codependent.

It was very obvious to us as kids that they did not get along. Their relationship varied from complete fall out / arguments to just avoiding each other. We were completely lost in the middle somewhere. I think what annoys me the most is that they did nothing at all to address the situation. They didn’t try to fix the marriage or leave. They just kept going round in this viscous circle (which they are still in).

What I would say to you is don’t just think about the kids up to the age of 18 think longer. I’m 36 and In literally hate visiting my parents. The atmosphere in the house is palpable. Even if they don’t argue in front of you you can tell something has been going on. Both me and my brother moved away as adults as we really have no tie to either of them as our upbringing was pretty dysfunctional. I think this is pretty upsetting to them but I’m not sure what they expected? They were so busy being wrapped up in their own shit that they pretty much ignored us.

They are now in their late 60s and need a bit more support from their partner. Both have some health issues that come and go. Neither is particularly sympathetic to the other one. They manage to function because they are quite wealthy and have a second home which allows them to spend a lot of time apart but this isn’t how you want to spend the latter years of your life.

The strange thing is when my parents visit separately they are lovely. I enjoy spending time with them and they are both notably happier when they other one isn’t there. I can’t help but think that an amicable separation would have been s much better solution for them than staying in this marriage. I would love to have seen them both happy. But they’ve never been able to do that.

I totally understand why this is very difficult for you especially with concerns about your husband’s mental health. Either way you must address this issue in particular. I would highly recommend some conselling to work through the issues. Is there any way this marriage can be salvaged? Are you willing to put the work in to do it? If so maybe it is worth having a go at it. But if not his do you separate in s mature grown up way? Good luck

hididdley you aren't actually asking about staying for the children, but about you and the children staying for your husband.

What's your relationship like? Could you make it actually work as a marriage if you both try do you think, or do you just intend to be friendly housemates, or do you envision living an unresolved sham marriage?

Those are 3 very different propositions.

I stayed for the sake of the children and if I had my time over again I would've left years ago. We were good at the pretence, so much so that it completely rocked the kids lives when we did split, I realise now what a mistake it was. It is the one thing in my life I wish I could undo.

In my experience people don't "stay together for the kids", they stay together because they're not brave enough to end it. Then they expect their grown up kids to be grateful for their shitty childhoods their great sacrifice.

FFS, I didn't mean pursue the life of riley at the expense of children. Just not stay miserable or at best tolerable in a relationship for their sake. When you have children you devote the best part of your days and worries to them, so yes, you damn well are allowed to put yourself first for the remains of those things. What kind of message is that otherwise to someone who is worrying and struggling leave a bad relationship?

I would think I'd done a shit job of raising any kids I have if they thought that was a good idea. And I would hate the idea that my parents stayed trapped for me - I would be downright horrified if either of them told me that was the case!

And MyDCAreMarvel - what a thoughtless thing to say offhand to someone when you only know a fraction of their philosophy.