to ask if it really IS that bad to stay together for the kids?

[hididdlyhoneighborino]

NC but a regular on here and all I ever see is staying together for the kids is harmful and shows them the wrong kind of relationship etc.

I have initiated separation (children are unaware) but I'm thinking of just staying together for the children instead so that they can have the best opportunities we can give them. They are all young, so on the one hand may not be too affected whilst they're young if we do separate, but if we don't then it's a long time to stay together for them I guess.

If we don't argue around them- is it really that bad? Will they really not know how to show love as adults just because we are not affectionate?

I'm more concerned for the MH of my husband. If you have any personal experience of this as a child I'd be more than welcome to hear them. I grew up with just my dad from age 2, so I don't know any different.

I don't agree on staying together for the kids. They get fuck all out of it emotionally.

Kids learn about relationships mostly from us, I would much prefer my kids saw lots of affection between me and my husband than rubbing shoulders and misery. It's not fair.

My parents did this and I wish they hadn't. We had to move to a smaller house (6 of us) and they bought one even though they weren't together and I didn't even catch on when they had separate beds. I think it taught me not to put my own happiness first.

If they'd split up properly and not lived together for years after it would have been better. it was a strange and confusing thing to experience. There were never arguments or anything but it was just weird.

MyDCAreMarvel there is a big difference between putting your kids before yourselves (I don't think one should do that anyway, it shouldn't be necessary, unless you are talking about not prioritising handbags over kids' food or taking drugs or something stupid like that...) and being a martyr. No one likes a martyr.

The relationship is pretty dysfunctional. DH had some issues with drinking in the early years of our relationship- he wasn't a drunk, but he would get so blathered on nights out that it would end up in him vomiting in the house or pissing the bed, on the sofa,etc. I found this so disrespectful, and I'd end up furious about it. He would then get defensive saying 'I didn't mean to did I' etc and that would make me even more angry. I kicked him out once for coming in at 8am whilst I was heavily pregnant. He was so drunk he could barely see and trying to interact with DD and I told him not to. He refused and started speaking to me nastily, and I asked him to leave and go to his parents until he'd sobered up and thought about his actions. At this point he'd got into just his boxers for some reason. He wouldn't leave and so I rang his dad to collect him and he ran out of the house into the street in his boxers with his dad chasing him. He had done other similar things in our early relationship and I guess my loss of respect started here.

I now just cannot stand for him to touch me, I don't want to have sex, I don't fancy him. He's very repetitive in his speech, so I can predict most of his replies in our conversations. He doesn't offer any intelligent conversation, and any input with our children on the things that matter gets a 'dunno'. He's also very judgmental of people's looks and him and SIL seem to be obsessed with people being fat and judging them for putting on weight which, being overweight myself, I fucking hate and try to protect my children from this attitude.
He's also lax with the children's safety on occasion.

I find myself sniping at him but for the children's sake I am working on this and waiting to speak to him when they have gone to bed unless there's an immediate need to say something. Yesterday he was screaming at DS to come in from the garden because he had attacked DD by scratching all of her neck and I said 'instead of screaming why didn't you pick him up and bring him in?' and he replied 'fuck off'. He wouldn't usually say anything like this, but he'd been drinking beer since he got in, presumably because of the situation we're in.

Generally as a husband he is usually very attentive- he does housework, makes tea, we share bedtime, he takes the children out when I'm studying. He gave up cricket so that he could help out more with the children. I'm nowhere near perfect either, I am not very kind to him generally I don't think because I think I've just built up resentment towards his behaviour and his excusing himself for his actions all the time, even when he nearly got our child ran over.

He is meant to be leaving tonight. I think I will go through with it. The children don't need this and I don't think I'm going to be able to cover it up like I thought I might. I was just having a moment of fear of what it would mean for them.

Your children will be ok, they are amazingly resilient beings. He really doesn't sound very nice and it wouldn't benefit them to live with him i suspect!

I think you're doing the right thing OP. Even if you think the kids haven't already picked up on the arguments or the tension I bet that they have.

My parents stayed together "for the kids" for far too long. I don't really have any memories of seeing love, affection or even much kindness between them. I distinctly remember that feeling of tension and not daring to speak or do anything that might make it worse.

I have told my DH that if we ever get to the point of lots of arguments and bickering I will not hesitate to end things. I will NEVER subject my children to the awkwardness and stress that I had growing up

My parents stayed together, long after my dad had moved into the spare room. It was the most bizarre situation, from what I can tell - my mum says one day, my dad simply stopped bringing her tea in her before work, then they bought single beds, and then sometime later, he moved into the spare room, all apparently without any kind of discussion.
My dad had long term MH issues (initially, we were told it was depression, but I now think he was bipolar) and he was largely absent, mentally; he barely spoke to my siblings and me in all the time we were growing up. In hindsight, I think both my parents were emotionally devoid.
My siblings moved out and I was left at home while at uni, because my parents wouldn't pay for me to live out. It was miserable. I'd come home and they'd be sitting in different rooms, not speaking. If they did converse, there was only to bicker, mostly.
We never did things as a family, never celebrated family stuff (not even birthdays), and my mum would say, "When I get my own place..." but neither made the move to separate , although my mum took her wedding ring off.
Eventually, my dad became very ill suddenly and spent 6 months in intensive care, before dying. In those months, my mum visited every day, but resented it and would never pay for more than an hour's parking. After he died, she put her wedding ring back on. He's been dead nearly 10 years and she still wears it, still tells people they were married for 50 years...even though they had no marriage to speak of for at least half that time.a

The whole situation makes me angry, but sad too - their choice to do nothing about their failed relationship has had a significant detrimental impact on all of us.

The marriage expert John Gottman says that once contempt has entered the picture, the marriage is effectively over. You don't like him, fancy him, you find him boring and simply don't want to be with him. He's dull, judgmental and aggressive in his language, sounds like he holds you in contempt too.

Honestly, just move on. I reckon he won't get depressed and kill himself, he'll feel sorry for himself for a bit, moan to SIL and find someone else to annoy. Even if he did, this would not be yours or your children's fault and they shouldn't be used to stop this happening. If he's a hands on father in the main, this may well continue after your split as it sounds like he is able to care for the children, but you just dislike each other intensely and it really would be better for them to be out of that situation.

He says the problem is all with me- he says I live my life on Facebook instead of real life (I've deactivated my account since this). This is because at the weekends I don't go out with him and the children, because I don't like him putting his arm around me or playing happy families. So instead I avoid it as much as I can. I also go on my laptop in the evenings as I am studying via distance learning so do my work in the evenings into the early am usually.

He says because I am not willing to change this that I have not tried to save our marriage, as if going out for the day on the weekend is the cure all.

I think he's right though, a lot of the problem is with me, but I don't know how to fix it because...well, I don't want to.

I have always considered it the reasonable responsible thing to do. The idea that your relationship is more important than your domestic obligations is a very modern one and rather self centred imo. Staying together is only harmful if you are abusing one another or the children. If you are merely unhappy then staying together demonstrates reliability (by not reneging on the domestic commitments you made when you married), that you have the right priorities (your children should come before your own happiness every time), pragmatism (where it is finacially silly to separate), maturity (which you require a great deal of in order to continue a marriage where your romantic relationship is over) and many other good qualities. You should only ever end a marriage where there is abuse or other serious concerns over your DCs welfare. Anything less is selfish.

I say this as a child of a marriage where parents stayed together for my sake.

Please don't stay together is you can't keep it civil. Children don't need to see happy parents, life is not always happy, no harm in learning that early. But if the two of you are constantly hurling verbal abuse at one another or blaming one another instead of accepting it for what it us then children don't need to see that either.

He can't hold you hostage with threats of suicide. That's frankly bonkers behaviour. Sorry to sound very harsh but if he wants to kill himself, he will. It's not your duty to run your life around preventing it. I think it's very unlikely that he will.

As for the staying together thing, I don't know how anyone gets to the point where they genuinely think that living miserably with someone they dislike is the best option for them and their family. How can it be?

Sorry, he's never actually threatened suicide. I just think that it is something that he would do. It's more of a hunch based on his personality than anything and I could be totally wrong.

The truth is, I have no money, no assets, I'm a SAHM and I'm scared of not being able to give my children opportunities because of being a single mum that I might be able to with DH. I have a uni place for next September too and I don't know if I'll be able to cope with that as a single mum.

I am looking for a part-time job though at the moment so that I can manage the bills, alongside clothing etc.

Racecardriver, do you genuinely think it was better for your parents to spend years pretending than it would have been for them to split amicably, find a good partner, etc.? To me it seems monumentally self centred for you to think that your parents not having a chance to start again, to find a happy relationship was a good thing just because it seemed to serve you. Who knows how good and happy things might have been if you didn't live with two parents who didn't love each other?

The 3 most screwed up, damaged people I know all had parents who stayed together because of their children. These 3 have no clue how to find and maintain a healthy relationship. They think that constant misery and drama in a relationship is "normal." They constantly make poor life decisions because they were never shown how to make good ones, and their self-worth is practically nonexistent.

You can't fool your children.

If you cant leave because of your own personal circumstances then own it. Please do not, one day, present your unhappiness to your children as something you did for their sakes. But from your posts, this is a poisonous atmosphere and you need get out and get them out.

Depends on reason for split. Never stay in an abusive relationship. But I despair of the people who say: he's a great dad and a lovely man but the spark isn;t there anymore.' So put the spark back! I think to assume relationships should glow with adoration and passion 24/7 for decades is immature. When it dies down, rekindle it. Do fun stuff together, work on projects together, champion eachother's hopes and dreams, talk, be silly, take on challenges. As a couple and as a family.

But anyone married to a cruel person who is physically, mentally or emotionally abusive, witholds money, behaves as though inequality is normal (with them getting the fairer share of free time and money and rights) - they'd be better off out of it. And so would the children.

I genuinely wonder who people think they're serving when they pretend. My parents don't hate each other but they're not a very good couple and my mother has put up with a lot from my lovely but very useless father down through the years. I think my mother would have had a far happier and more fulfilling life without him but in her mind marriage is for life. That's her choice but I'm not going to congratulate her for wasting her time and there'll be no reward for her losing out on things she could have had - she'll just die having let a man drain the life out of her, which seems a horrible waste.

Why would you stay in a unhappy relationship? Both you and your husband deserve to be happy and find someone else.

It will affect your children

I guess I'm worried about the future- if he gets a new partner or I do one day (I really am NOT thinking about that any time soon, I just want to be alone), dealing with them and my children seeing new relationships. I'm worried about my in-laws influencing his behaviour when he goes back to live with them and the things she may encourage him to say/do that may not be as reasonable as he could be if she didn't have that input.
Ultimately I'm scared when they're old enough they will choose him not me, and I will be the bad guy for splitting the family up and for being the one who is disciplined rather than the one who lets them do anything they like.
I'm worried about money- about affording things when they're all at school- they are 5,3 and 2 atm.

Stupid worries to some I know, but not to me. We are also renting a house that is too small (2 bed terrace, but I'm going to sleep downstairs when/if the time comes and let them have the two rooms) and I'm worried the landlords will kick us out when they find out. They are very nice but I dont know what their reaction will be.

I don't see why the landlord would kick you out.

As for the rest of it, money worries are legitimate but can be dealt with (with difficulty) and you can't stay with someone so that you can control their unreasonable behaviour. As for the children going against you when they get older, I know you see that as a legitimate fear but it really isn't sensible to make bad choices in order to appease the possible future feelings of children. Children tend to value the parent who looks out for them far more than the fun parent, in the long run. It might take time for that to happen but it doesn't mean you have to manipulate them into liking you by staying with someone you can't stand.

It depends on the relationship and on the children - their ages but also their personality. If you H's mental health is impacting on them then you should split. I stayed with my alcoholic depressed H for far too long. My DDs are happy he is gone, have no contact with him at all and plan to celebrate when the decree absolute comes through. All three of us have a lot of recovering to do. But my H did nothing to help himself, did no parenting, wasn't a husband or partner. It may be very different for you. And my DDs are 15 and 17, not very young.

Don't think for one minute that DC won't feel the atmosphere.

It is horrible growing up like that, not knowing if it is your fault or not.

I wouldn't wish it on any kid.

If my parents had split sooner, then at least DM would have had a life, rather than a life just about kids.

We actually 'divorced our parents'.

We sat them down and told them we'd had enough, things weren't working out and we were sick of the rows. So DM took it on board and got herself a solicitor.

When my db and I were small (I was about 7/8, he was about 4/5), we asked our dm why our df didn't like her. (they finally split four years later)

Children are very perceptive.