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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School and 'rules' re shorts under dress

467 replies

oblada · 20/06/2018 07:23

Before I take this further quick 'poll'; does your school insist that girls wear shorts under their dress if they want to mess about at break time in a way that could involve someone seeing their knickers? Would you expect a rule like this? My daughter is saying that her school and her after school club have told her off for doing gymnastic 'moves' during break time whilst wearing a dress with no shorts or tights underneath. She says she's been told it's 'rude' because people can see her knickers. She is 6yrs old btw. I think this is completely bonkers and she should be allowed to do as she wish as long as she is not actually showing her 'privates' to people on purpose. Underpants are underpants and are not offensive (to me). Of course I don't know yet how much she has actually been told off, or whether it's peer pressure rather than school so I'll go and ask later. But thought I'd gather some views!

OP posts:
liz70 · 20/06/2018 11:15

Safety and hate-inciting slogans excepted, the "law" isn't remotely concerned with what children wear at primary school, or anywhere.

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 20/06/2018 11:19

We used to have uniform knickers at school. No problem with flashing in those — they were generously cut (kept your kidneys warm!), and thick material.

ShouldofWouldofCouldof · 20/06/2018 11:38

@bibesia the difference is context. You dont wear your bikini to the office do you? You choose to show off your body and let people look at you by wearing one. Underwear is exactly what is says.... underwear therefore by definition shouldnt be seen.......

Blackirishe · 20/06/2018 11:55

This subject comes up from time to time and causes heated debate.
As a rough generalisation seems to fall into the, "seeing pants is fine don't sexualise my 6 yr old" camp and the "I want my child to feel comfortable to do cartwheels without teasing" camp.

I can understand both viewpoints. If we take the first viewpoint, then obviously little girls are not in anyway responsible for adults feeling uncomfortable about them flashing their pants/genitals. And of course girls clothing should not be policed.

Imo, this is where the difficulty arrises, because our society and many others does police, have expectations of what females wear. Whether it's, wear what you like or wear what I tell you too! So much interest in the female body and what clothes it.

The decision I have made for my 6 yr old, is she wears trousers or shorts depending on weather. Both ok for school. I would really struggle with a school that did not allow females the option of trousers or shorts. When she gets older she will make her own decisions on what to cover her body with (dependent on uniform requirements).

My reasoning on this, comes from the "I want her to be as active as possible" camp. This is usually were posters pile on stating " skirts don't stop my daughters climbing trees and doing cartwheels".
Which may well be true for individual girls.

However there is research that suggests that clothing does have an impact on how active female children are. I am not going to post a link to it, I don't have it to hand. I read it a few years ago pre children, came from Australia, and the results indicated that as female children age, they were more likely to sit around the edges of playgrounds chatting than being active at lunchtime. The type of clothing worn was found to be an active factor in the choices of lunchtime activity. I am guessing other factors are at play as well though.

This had quite an impact on me when I read it. And I have developed a position that children's clothes should be fit for their purpose. Therefore, I want my child to be as active as possible, not held back by clothing or flimsy shoes. Partly this view is formed by my own experience, inactive childhood , followed by adult obesity. And, no I don't blame wearing skirts to school for my adult obesity, but it is one of many factors I am trying to influence to give my daughter a different start in life.

Adults wear clothing for all sorts of different reasons, feeling attractive and attracting a partner being part of that. I don't think that should be part of children's clothing and yes young girls clothing starts to become "adult like" too early.

My DD wants a crop top, my answer so far is " have you seen Paul/james/Ryan wearing a crop top?" There is no reason that a 6 year old needs to show her stomach in order to dance/move around. The Crop top is not serving a functional purpose for a 6 year old.

Young boys clothing does not limit them in anyway from being active and yet young girls are sometimes being given the message that their clothing is not suitable for being active in. This is so wrong. I have decided to circumvent this, by going down the "practical" route.

I know that not everyone shares these opinions and I do not judge other parents for the clothing decisions they make. We are all formed by our own experiences and trying to negotiate parenthood as best we can!

Butterflykissess · 20/06/2018 12:24

my dd wears shorts under her dresses. i wouldnt send her without.

oblada · 20/06/2018 12:39

Black - interesting post and in the main I agree.
On this specific point I don't want my daughter to feel she has to wear shorts under her dress unless she genuinely wants to for practical reasons mostly. Absolutely happy to give her shorts to wear if she feels it is easier to do whatever she want to do with shorts on. But I don't want her to feel that flashing her knickers by accident is something to be ashamed of.

OP posts:
oblada · 20/06/2018 12:42

But yes I'd much rather the school just allowed shorts for girls full stop (ie not just under the dress!)

OP posts:
ShouldofWouldofCouldof · 20/06/2018 12:47

Well said @blackirishe i agrre clotjingnshould suit the activity. Skurts and dresses are not appropriate for gymnastic type activites 1 they expose you and 2 they are not 'safe' ( they can get twisted and cause you to land awkwardly -have seen this happen) you dont wear a skirt to a gym class do you.

Also if it is ok for a 6yr old to flash, when does it stop? When she is 13+ will you be ok with her doing handstands and cartwheels flashing her gusset?

oblada · 20/06/2018 12:54

'Not being exposed' is not a practical concern. You're missing the point a bit here.
Tbh I don't really get why it would ever be an issue for someone to do handstand etc and 'flash' unless they are uncomfortable by it themselves.

OP posts:
Blackirishe · 20/06/2018 12:56

Oblada, yes that sums up my long winded post. No girl should feel ashamed of wearing clothes (that they are told to, in this case school uniform) and doing the thing that comes naturally to children I.e. Play.

But for me, why are we putting our children in this position? I blame societies expectations of what females should wear, school uniform if it exists (that is another debate!) should be suitable for all children to play freely in, practically and comfortably.

RavenWings · 20/06/2018 12:58

Personally I'm not a fan of shorts under skirts rules - but then we have a ban on doing gymnastics in our school playground anyway so it wouldnt be needed. Which I think is sensible.

BlueSapp · 20/06/2018 12:59

There isnt a rule like this at my daughters school, Its mad to make little kids self consious about what they are doing in the playground for gods sake why can't they just be kids !

We had to wear shorts under our PE skirt at my secondary school, but that I understood because teenagers are funny about that stuff, but wee ones should be allowed to just play!

0hCrepe · 20/06/2018 13:07

Making children wear pants and vests for PE if they forgot their kit was inappropriate and shaming, I’m glad it no longer happens. As it is it’s usually the kids with forgetful parents that don’t have their kits and more often have ropey underwear; why would this be heralded as a great example of the good old days and OK? We are much more aware of abuse of children in schools, clubs etc than in days gone by where yes, children’s naivety would be taken advantage of.

Jellycatspyjamas · 20/06/2018 13:08

Is it just about being st school though? My DD loves skirts and dresses, her clothes of choice would always be a dress or a skirt - It doesn’t stop from climbing, tumbling etc at all. I’d make her wear leggings or trousers for something like soft play where there’s a definite safety issue but otherwise I’m not going to worry too much about someone seeing her pants.

As children grow and their bodies develop they tend to become more aware of themselves and start to cover up anyway so yes, I’m pretty confident not making a big deal of her showing her pants at 7 won’t lead to her flashing at 13.

Blackirishe · 20/06/2018 13:12

When I think about it, schools with dress/ skirt options only for girls who then say but you have to wear shorts under the dress if you want to be normally active are really saying "we do not think our girls uniform is fit for purpose". Totally ridiculous, change the uniform and stop giving out these unacceptable messages to young girls.

Octopeppa · 20/06/2018 13:19

liz surely there are sex discrimination laws though, equal opportunities in education etc... wouldn't they apply here? I'm sure there were boys who wore skirts to school when the weather was hot, not long ago.

FiestaThenSiesta · 20/06/2018 13:25

“Do you as an adult flash your knickers? Do you walk round with your bra or knickers showing?

Go on any beach in summer. How is an adult in a bikini showing any less than someone in their bra and pants?”

Bibesa, are you being goady or are you really incapable of distinguishing between cotton material and one that is specifically made to get wet (and not be see throughh?

FoofFighter · 20/06/2018 13:27

it's madness.

Pants are to cover the genitals, and now we need shorts to cover the things that are meant to cover them? where will it end? next it'll be something on top to cover the bloody "modesty" shorts.

ShouldofWouldofCouldof · 20/06/2018 13:28

Modesty is the point. Why would i or anyone want a glimps of anyone's underwear or genitalia? Even by accident? I dont. Like pps have pointed out knickers dont cover as much as they used to. And like i said before at what age doe it become inappropriate? Why is ok for a 6yr old to expose herself, even accidently. But a teen walking round with her arse cheeks falling out of her skirt is wrong? Also a primary school goes up to 11yr old with boys and girls hitting puberty and sexual curiosity they will look and stare, which they do because they are curious. Then there is the bullying...when they hit the higher years... can you rembeber when little johnny wet him self in class...can you rember when little jenny did a handstand and everyone could see her fanny... i remember being about 6 and having an accident in class i was mortified even more so when the class bitch reminded people at my yr6 leavers party....

liz70 · 20/06/2018 13:33

I've said several times, state schools can't enforce a uniform rule. Send your daughters or sons in whatever you or they choose, provided it is safe and not intended to offend e.g. hateful or obscene slogans. Legal ruling is irrelevant and unneccessary here. The reality though is that most schools like and encourage a uniform code, and most parents are happy to follow it, as well as children not wanting to stand out if they were sent to school in e.g. a red sweater and jeans instead of the uniform that all their other classmates are wearing. But a state primary cannot refuse to teach a child just because they turn up at school in what would be deemed "incorrect" uniform according to their policy. And they have nothing what to do whatsoever with what a girl wears under her skirt, pinafore or dress.

reallyanotherone · 20/06/2018 13:39

But a teen walking round with her arse cheeks falling out of her skirt is wrong?

No. It isn’t “wrong”. I may not like it, it may not be my idea of a nice outfit, but it is that teens choice what she wears. I don’t need to look at her arse cheeks if i don’t like it.

Although these days they could be naked and i’d still be staring at the eyebrows!

ShouldofWouldofCouldof · 20/06/2018 13:40

Also skirts are supposed to stay down. Therefore if worn correctly they wouldn't show underwear. So a skirt is an innapropriate item to wear for gym type activites where it moves from where it should be.. and theres also the safety issue but thats another discussion entirely. If you are happy for your child to show her undies and possibly more then thats up to you. I dont see why other children should have to see it though?

ShouldofWouldofCouldof · 20/06/2018 13:44

@reallyanotherone i probably could of worded it better but surley you get my point at what age do we stop it? And definatly agree with the eyebrows thing wtf is that about?

liz70 · 20/06/2018 13:45

You've got some serious issues there, Should. Hmm

ShouldofWouldofCouldof · 20/06/2018 13:48

Why because i look at the bigger picture? Life is not all black and white with rose tinted glasses.