School and 'rules' re shorts under dress

[oblada]

Before I take this further quick 'poll'; does your school insist that girls wear shorts under their dress if they want to mess about at break time in a way that could involve someone seeing their knickers? Would you expect a rule like this? My daughter is saying that her school and her after school club have told her off for doing gymnastic 'moves' during break time whilst wearing a dress with no shorts or tights underneath. She says she's been told it's 'rude' because people can see her knickers. She is 6yrs old btw. I think this is completely bonkers and she should be allowed to do as she wish as long as she is not actually showing her 'privates' to people on purpose. Underpants are underpants and are not offensive (to me). Of course I don't know yet how much she has actually been told off, or whether it's peer pressure rather than school so I'll go and ask later. But thought I'd gather some views!

DD is 8 and spends more time at break upside down than right way up. She won't entertain the idea of shorts or trousers, she likes dresses and skirts. She has a skort for pe rather than shorts. No rule at her school, I've offered shorts and she says no, she doesn't care if people see her pants. So that's that then! I don't like the shaming attitude of you should cover up and entirely agree that those who don't want to see shouldn't look. Those who do want to see are a bit more of a problem but we're realistically unlikely to have any of those on her primary school field.

@MrsMint oh piss off with your snide little comments. Get a grip of yourself.

At DS's school I get flashes of girl's knickers all the time - handstands on the field and half of them sit with their legs wide open at school shows, concerts etc. I've never really given it a seconds thoughts.

My daughters wear shorts. Knickers move especially when doing cartwheels and hand stands etc. Id rather they didnt accidently flash anyone Their privates. Do you as an adult flash your knickers? Do you walk round with your bra or knickers showing? Im guessing not because its innapropriate. So Why should a childhave their underwear on show? Its is UNDER wear. if you are going to be in a position where you are exposing your UNDERwear then your clothing isnt appropriate for the activity! Plus she may only be 6 but there are children up to the age of 11 in a primary school, its a rule there to protect her and other children....

We had to wear 2 pairs of knickers at school - a white 'liner' and sturdy navy blue ones on top. And we did PE in them!

OK. Spoke to school and there is no such rule. They may have a quiet word with yr6 girls but nothing for the little ones and it's not an issue. So I will have a word with after school club as my daughter was v specific about who 'told her off' whereas for school she couldn't name anyone and it could have been older kids talking etc.
I'll have a word with my daughter too to explain my views on that and see how she herself feels about it. And yes fair point I can review what knickers she has although I tend to go with practical ones over fancy ones. But some are a bit flimsy maybe. I could look at some short style underpants for her maybe if she wants.

I like the point about if knickers covering private are seen as private then where we do stop?

As an adult I don't routinely flash my knickers at people but then it's been a long time since I did a handstand or cartwheel!

My DD is 9 and one of her female friends wears the sort of tailored shorts traditionally worn by boys, some of them have the gingham jumpsuits.

I agree with whoever said if the dress isn't seen as sufficient by the school, then it's the dress that needs to come off the uniform policy in favour of proper shorts, not a skimpy "outer knicker" thing which just draws attention.

Sadly for a long time clothes for females have been lIke a barbed wire fence, that protects the property without concealing the view...

Shouldof - 'clothing not appropriate for the activity': she would be happy to wear shorts if it was allowed for girls as part of the uniform! Why should she have to wear them under her dress? If the dresses aren't appropriate for school activities then maybe the uniform needs to change?

As for adults showing their underwear: actually it is not that rare to see a woman's bra/bras strap on show or through their clothing. I may point it out nicely but I wouldn't be offended. Same goes with men and underpants, I don't like the trend of having trousers fall below the underpants line but that's my personal taste, I'm not offended, I think it looks silly. In both those examples it's adults and it's not a few seconds during a cartwheel.

I also want to protect my daughter from early 'sexualisation' and body shaming...

Do you as an adult flash your knickers? Do you walk round with your bra or knickers showing?

Tbh it’s pretty common to see adult women with bra straps on show and/or flashing their pants above trousers.

IIRC back in the 90’s ish it was a bit of a fashion to have your thong on display above your low rise jeans.

Nobody died :)

Well 60 years ago we didn't sit it out. Nearly everyone then wore white pants like these and vests for girls and their ordinary shorts for the boys.

Only at secondary school did we have those disgusting knickers with legs, in bottle green, and then we had proper PE shorts, and most of us had long given up doing handstands at break.

I have no issue with my 7 year old tumbling or whatever in skirt and pants. The pants are there to cover her private parts, they’re clean and more than adequate. I’m not prepared to have my girl think it’s her job to accommodate other people’s prurient mindset. She is 6, her pants have cartoon characters on them - if someone finds that sexual in any way there’s a much bigger issue that her flashing her pants every now and again. She’ll come to a place soon enough when she wants to cover up, I’m not going to shame her for being a girl.

I've worked in my dd's classroom when she was small. Sometimes little girls show substantially more than their knickers when sitting cross-legged or doing a cartwheel. I think the suggestion of 'modesty' shorts is trying to address this issue. Nobody is offended by a little girl's pants. It's when the pants are not doing their job that it becomes necessary to point it out.

I’m not shaming my DD by putting shorts on her, and I resent the implication that I am. Do what you like with your own kids, but don’t fucking insinuate shit that isn’t true because I do things differently.

Primary school kids still get changed for pe altogether in the classroom (at least up to year 5 in our school) so everybody can see anyone else's pants anyway.

The only time a school may need to step in is if year 6 children who are starting puberty were flashing their underwear with any kind of sexual implication.

Infant age girls definitely shouldn't have to hide their pants.

I wish school uniform from Reception onwards would be shorts/trousers for boys and girls - no skirts or pinafores. DD is at high school now and the girls swelter in tights during the summer because they're "afraid" of someone catching a glimpse of their knickers. For some bizarre reason the girls don't wear trousers even though they are allowed.

For me it's more that it can discourage boys trying to touch the girls under their dresses. And yes it does happen- quite often!

Ok, I’m sense I’m going to get my arse kicked here but what’s the issue if a child does show “substantially more than their pants” doing a cartwheel or sitting cross legged. If my child was showing more when sitting down I’d hope someone would gently help her adjust whatever needed adjusting - or not, at that age there is nothing sexual about her vulva, i wouldn’t expect folk to be offended by her accidentally showing more than is ideal.

Yes it’s important that kids know the parts of them that are private, things like the pants rule give an easy way to teach that, but I’m not about to be offended or put out by the sight of a small child’s genitalia. And yes, the same applies to boys - it’s not the first time my 5 year old has decided to pull his pants down en route to the toilet in nursery. Oddly enough the staff just help him in to the toilet and explain why he should keep his pants on. No offence or hysteria at the sight of a 5 year old penis.

Our school doesn't insist but some girls do and my DD loves the idea so she wears gym shorts under her school dresses most days. I very doubt she does handstands though!!!!!! She just likes a fad!

"I agree with whoever said if the dress isn't seen as sufficient by the school, then it's the dress that needs to come off the uniform policy in favour of proper shorts"

As I said, state primary schools here can't enforce a strict uniform rule. School dresses for summer, usually in gingham or striped, are cool and comfortable and have been part of school uniform for generations. No state primary in the UK will, nor ever would, stop me sending my DD to school in her gingham dress in warm weather, nor any of the many other parents whose daughters wear dresses to school in spring and summer.

This started off as a thing in the US, I think it is horrible. Tiny girls feeling that even a glimpse of their pants while doing a cartwheel is somehow rude ? We had really short dresses when I was little and we all did handstands etc in the playground. We had pants on, no problem. Little girls don’t need shorts under dresses, they need to be able to play without feeling that a glimpse of leg or underwear is a shameful thing.

@SoddingUnicorns

You clearly don't like/can't face up to the truth. I take it you haven't read/seen the news in the past 5 years...

OK. Spoke to school and there is no such rule.

I'm not surprised. I found it was coming from certain members of staff - TA and lunch superverses and other girls from more conservative backgrounds.

I got DD2 some modesty shorts but also some shorts style pants which she could ware over normal pants or as pants. I did that because me telling her it was fine and the school insisting there was such rule wasn’t stopping her being upset. I think she often wears the short style pants as normal pants but it seemed to solve the issue for her.

This year she very much favouring the trousers she has - though she has options of summer dress, skirts tights or long socks.

I think shorts under dresses are a good thing actually. I remember being 6 and boys in the playground laughing at my knickers when I did cartwheels! They told everyone I had yellow knickers on and teased me about it for days.

I think shorts protect a child's dignity. Showing your underwear in public is still taboo, there's no getting around that. There will always be children who make fun of her for showing her knickers.

I always wear shorts under dresses (or black knickers that look like shorts on hot days) as my toddler likes to go under my dress! I feel much more relaxed with shorts as I can sit without keeping my knees together!

We used to wear gym knickers at school but they were like short shorts, worn over underwear.

@MrsMint is there a reason you’re hinting at it instead of coming out with it directly?

Aye there is. You’d get banned for racism. Now jog the fuck on and take your insidious, pernicious views somewhere they’re wanted. Try the Free Tommy Robinson sites, they’re more your level.

What a nonsense!

When I was at senior school, so like 13+, we had to wear navy knickers over our regular pants under our hockey skirts (which were pretty short). We were always told it was so that we all looked exactly the same and smart. I think that's probably defensible (if a little OTT) - but it's very different from telling a 6 year old she has to wear modesty shorts! Horrible phrase and horrible insinuation I think.