Solution for Brexit....coming from Germany

[watchingwithinterest]

Watching Mrs Merkel in Germany with some considerable interest, she is now under a great deal of pressure to start imposing migrant restrictions in Germany. Her own interior minister threatened to impose them immediately defying her authority but has allowed her the opportunity to find a solution at the EU summit.

Are we now seeing the start of freedom of movement coming to an end?

And if we are, what does that mean for brexit? If countries are able to implement their own immigration policies again given the huge surge in support for some controls surely this could actually mean that brexit may not need to happen.

I am posting as a leaver, I would like a considered orderly brexit. I would certainly reconsider staying in the EU if the immigration decisions were based here and if the EU became more democratic and transparent (I do believe this is all achievable)

If the EU wishes to ignore the tsunami of growing opinion right across Europe that some controls are needed, then the project truly deserves to be dead in the water, if it can show it is open and flexible to change it may save itself just in time....

What are your thoughts? Civil posts only please.

All that is your opinion, though. If you voted Leave just because you don't like immigrants, frankly you deserve the economic shitstorm coming your way.

FYI no, EU will not put an end to freedom of movement of EU citizens. That is an integral part of EU.

We could just do what france does which is ask for highly specific national diplomas to do even really basic jobs like work in a shop, which is why you rarely see 17 year olds or immigrants working in places like supermarket tills - effectively covertly preventing anyone who isnt French from taking up casual employment unless they do the harvests or set up their own shops or work as taxi drivers.

That's a grown up answer Cote. Are you an advocate of complete open borders?

And agree however I don’t think they can change the pull of power grab is to strong for the EU and Germany and the EU would have to admit they were wrong

And as the song goes
Sorry seems to be the hardest word
The lefty’s won’t admit won’t have it they have created this awful tide
I am not sure what here agenda was but it was pretty clear for most unplanned immigration ends badly for everyone
I heard many were sleeping in sports stadiums
Old run down council buildings because they just don’t have the housing for the numbers of people who

She thought she was doing a good thing but like most people of that ilk they virtual signall with out actually doing much good

It makes it harder now for anyone to implement a sensible immigration policy and it’s likey even the lowest level will be resisted unless that was her plan all along

There are already controls on migration from outside the EU though. You cannot put a limit on asylum seekers coming in as that would break international law. The UK couldn't do this independently of the EU, although I suppose we could start locking children up like they do in Texas to act as a deterrent. In fact, if the French decide to disband the Le Touquet agreement after Brexit then the UK will probably end up having to process more asylum seekers.

What there should be be is a more efficient registration process, funded by EU money so that asylum applications are dealt with quickly. If necessary, those that do not meet the criteria can be deported. There also needs to be a way that ensures that countries which have the bad luck to sit closer to conflict zones such as the Middle East, like Italy and Greece, have a way of sharing the burden.

Personally I think refugees should be settled equally throughout Europe but I suspect that would not be a popular policy with your average leave voter.

What cannot happen is that boatloads of refugees are left in the sea to drown in case there might be some economic migrants on board.

I would also argue that we have just been through a period of crisis due to conflict in the Middle East that has resulted in far larger numbers of refugees coming to Europe than we have had in the last few decades. I suspect that if Brexit hadn't happened to coincide with this, there wouldn't have been a vote for leave.

CoteDAzur

All that is your opinion, though. If you voted Leave just because you don't like immigrants, frankly you deserve the economic shitstorm coming your way.

FYI no, EU will not put an end to freedom of movement of EU citizens. That is an integral part of EU.
hows that working out for the EU
Definition of madness keep repeating the same thing knowing the result will be the same

And as Cote says, you cannot limit free movement within EU member states as it is pivotal to the single market, eg the ability of lorry drivers to transport goods within member states without the need for passport checks is central to the just in time model of manufacturing. However, there are existing EU regulations which state that someone can only stay for 3 months in a member state unless they have work or are self-supporting. The UK government could just enforce this, as they haven't done in the past.

I what should of happened was this

Freedom of movement
But what people shouldn’t have is the freedom to claim social housing or welfare

If you cannot feed and house yourself then you need to stay put

Most countries don’t need low skilled workers
And I know employers love those from the eastern EU countires but we all know why so they can stick them in a car wash a pay the pennies we need engineers and doctors ect we have enough people to wash cars tbh

Freedom of movement under EU has NEVER applied to migrants from outside the EU.

Ever. So I’m not sure what point you are making wrt “free movement” coming to an end.

I like all immigrants cote, but we are a small country and can not take unlimited numbers. I would happily support real refugees and children, and those that are highly skilled where needed.

If Germany were to reintroduce borders, then most of europe will do the same I suspect. If the UK could choose its immigration policy it would certainly change things.

"What cannot happen is that boatloads of refugees are left in the sea to drown in case there might be some economic migrants on board."

Turn this around, which is in fact more close to the reality, "what cannot be allowed to happen is boatloads of economic migrants are allowed to settle in Europe just in case there happens to be a genuine refugee on board".

And noone wants them to drown, they should be towed back to their point of origin. This would stop the attempts, and the drownings, overnight. A far more humane solution than that proposed by Liberals which is to keep offering them the carrot of a life in Europe should they survive the crossing.

EU member states already set their own immigration policy for non EU migrants. The EU only get involved in human rights cases. The EU will never agree to member states suspending freedom of movement of EU nationals. If you voted for Brexit because you want to reduce immigration from outside the EU I'm afraid you're going to be rather disappointed

Metoodear

Precisely. If we could choose our immigration policies then we could look at all of those things.
We could have tight regulations that anyone coming to work from anywhere will need to house and feed themselves, and contribute to the health care system and education. This could easily be organised, if the regulations were changed.

Free movement is part of the four pillars of the single market, if it became three pillers then I would imagine Brexit would not happen.

Pillars

JagerPlease why would anyone vote leave to reduce immigration outside the EU?? Of course it was to limit immigration within the EU!

I think you could be wrong about member states. Even Poland who once was a great advocate for this are changing their minds, there are no young to pay taxes and skills shortages.

It would get far more support than you imagine.

I don't really think brexit would affect immigration anyway. Illegal immigrants are illegal anyway so won't stop this. As for other immigration, we need the workers and therefore they will still be welcome and a lot of other immigration are families of the ones we need so will also be allowed entry. Many people from outside the EU already are in the UK, so EU membership is not going to be some kind of magic blockade.

The EU is a house of cards teetering on the edge in my opinion. All countries have been told to prepare for a 25% cut in budgets for funding their various grant programmes. Net contributers will either be expected to pay in more or net receivers will massively lose out on funding programmes like ESF, ERDF etc. Cant see the French "farmers" being very happy at seeing their subsidies cut by a quarter. The reality is the EU is all about money and when a major contributor like GB walks away its going to have an enormous effect. No way will Germany and France put more in the pot to cover.

The EU could impose controls inside the EU, it would be good for security and good for the people of Europe. The EU could then focus on the huge and growing people trafficking problem it has.

mummymeister

But if the EU genuinely came to the table with a proper offer on immigration, transparency and future relations do you not feel that would help ease the concerns of the British public?

Even my most ardent remainer friends feel very uneasy about the future and the country will cope in the long term. It isn't just a leavers issue.

Lets play devils advocate.

EU knows it will not cover the huge EU contribution the UK makes.

It needs to also control the people trafficking and the immigration tensions growing across the whole of the EU

The EU knows it will sink if more countries vote like Italy (and they are likely to)

The one issue they could solve would be immigration policy is relaxed to allow countries to make their own decisions.

And if we are, what does that mean for brexit? If countries are able to implement their own immigration policies again given the huge surge in support for some controls surely this could actually mean that brexit may not need to happen.

@watchingwithinterest

Your original post contains a false statement. All EU countries (including the UK) already have their own immigration policies with regard to non-EU citizens and to refugees and asylum seekers.

EU FoM rules have nothing to do with these policies, so any change in Germany's refugee policy has no relevance to Brexit (or to the UK's current policy regarding non-EU immigrants).

I voted Leave, my reasons did not include immigration so this changes nothing and Brexit should and will go ahead. I agree with watchingwithinterest in believing the EU will collapse sooner or later - better we are out when the shit hits the fan.

We don't have enough people to: be Doctors, Nurses etc. Care home workers, or short term agricultural jobs. We could easily have limited how long anyone could stay without a job within the EU. But the government choose not to. Theresa May abolished the old agricultural workers scheme which might have helped with the fruit picking, by then threatening to limit freedom of movement - and wrecking our economy via Brexit - those short term foreign workers prefer to go elsewhere.
Out Immigration service has not for a very long time kept adequate checks on those who come into the country ensuring those on short term visas actually leave - they will not miraculously improve after Brexit. But they are deporting those who actually have a legal right to stay, and often have contributed to this country for a very long time. Those people are easy to deport because they pay their taxes, live in stable homes etc. Those who overstay Visas on the other hand often work in the black economy, cash in hand and move around a lot.

None of tis is the EU's fault - it is our Government.

watchingwithinterest - I voted leave because of the huge contributions we make and how it is wasted. I didn't do it because of immigration.

There is no deal that the EU could offer personally that I would find acceptable because it cant even pass its own financial audits, I want nothing to do with it.

the immigration "crack down" is a smoke screen. fiddling whilst rome burns.

I don't agree with the we are all doomed crap. if you get the time listen to Radio 4 and hear from the boss of weatherspoons. he sums things up for me in regard to trade etc.

"Personally I think refugees should be settled equally throughout Europe" So do I. That was supposed to be the case but as we know Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic and others have said a big "NO" to that in spite of hardly taking any. Italy has been left to flounder around for the past few years with the many boatloads of people coming from Libya and landing on their shores until now. They have been recently been criticised by France for turning away the latest boat which has now reached Valencia, Spain agreeing to take them in. Although of course France is closer and they could have offered the port of Marseilles to let these people disembark as some were ill, rather than let them make a longer journey to Spain. In any case they block the passage of refugees who try to cross the Italian border into France. There is no joined up consensus on any of this, it's been going on long enough for the powers that be in Brussels to have sorted something out that is mutually acceptable to all, but they haven't. More and more countries are voting in hard line right wing governments who it seems will not co-operate with Franco German directives.