Solution for Brexit....coming from Germany

[watchingwithinterest]

Watching Mrs Merkel in Germany with some considerable interest, she is now under a great deal of pressure to start imposing migrant restrictions in Germany. Her own interior minister threatened to impose them immediately defying her authority but has allowed her the opportunity to find a solution at the EU summit.

Are we now seeing the start of freedom of movement coming to an end?

And if we are, what does that mean for brexit? If countries are able to implement their own immigration policies again given the huge surge in support for some controls surely this could actually mean that brexit may not need to happen.

I am posting as a leaver, I would like a considered orderly brexit. I would certainly reconsider staying in the EU if the immigration decisions were based here and if the EU became more democratic and transparent (I do believe this is all achievable)

If the EU wishes to ignore the tsunami of growing opinion right across Europe that some controls are needed, then the project truly deserves to be dead in the water, if it can show it is open and flexible to change it may save itself just in time....

What are your thoughts? Civil posts only please.

The reality is the EU is all about money and when a major contributor like GB walks away its going to have an enormous effect.

The reality is that the UK contributes about €8.6bn a year (net) out of a total EU budget of about €145bn - so somewhere in the order of 6%.

Once the UK leaves, the UK is predicted to lose billions in inward investment (e.g. Land Rover have built their new factory in Slovakia; investing €1bn in a factory that is larger than anything they have in the UK and is providing thousands of jobs), will lose millions in tax revenues, will lose 800,000 jobs in aerospace and auto manufacturing alone. All these jobs will go somewhere else - Easyjet to Austria, Nissan to Romania etc. - thus boosting the EU economies at the expense of the UK.

But what people shouldn’t have is the freedom to claim social housing or welfare

I have said this many times before, but I will continue to say this until it gets through to people. EU member states have the right to deport EEA and Swiss citizens who have become a burden on the welfare system of the host country. This is generally after three months without a job. The UK has decided not to implement this, except for a few isolated cases. That is not the EU's fault.

And yes, I would be very happy if we had completely free movement within the EEA and Switzerland, and if the UK joined the Schengen Area and the Eurozone, but that is clearly never going to happen.

I voted leave because of the huge contributions we make and how it is wasted. I didn't do it because of immigration

Once the UK leaves, the cost of replicating the agencies that the EU currently provides to the UK will in itself almost eat up the €8.6 net that the UK pays to be in the EU.

The cost of customs checks, infrastructure, admin etc. is estimated to be £20bn. Repeat for Agencies that control and certify the standards for medicines, chemicals, food and drink, manufactured products, airline safety etc and the losses mount up.

monger the reason it’s not implemented is because it is impossible to monitor and control. It would take millions to implement the processes.

That’s why we have Romanians begging all over the city centres.

Merckel is hated in Germany by many. Thee have been local rapes and murders of young German women by non Eu immigrants to the extent some towns are unsafe and women told not to travel at night.

I voted leave for many, many reasons.

I don’t think free movement of people, with disparate countries in terms of living standards is a good idea. It’s a fucking terrible idea. That’s why we voted leave.

This doesn’t mean I don’t like polish people!!!

Havanananana We are NOT for the second time, talking about non EU immigration.

Germany are considering putting border checks on German borders and tightening their own policies.

This will affect freedom of movement, of course, and this will change everything.

At the moment anyone inside the EU can travel anywhere, this may change.

carbuncleonapigsposterior

So you would see us accepting hundreds of thousands of economic migrants from the EU on top of the millions we have already accepted within the EU?

Where is everyone going to live? Work?

How on earth would we ever manage?

I can tell you one thing for sure, we wouldn't manage. Not a hope. The schools are bursting, the hospitals are bursting, the GPs can not take anymore patients in our area and many others places. We simply can not have unlimited flows of masses of people

I would like a considered orderly Brexit

😂😂😂🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

monger the reason it’s not implemented is because it is impossible to monitor and control. It would take millions to implement the processes.

Other countries implement it, eg Belgium, so it is not impossible. It is harder here than there because of the IMO peculiar reluctance of the UK government to introduce an ID card as they have in most EU member states.

Implementing existing EU rules about freedom of movement would certainly be much easier and less costly to implement than Brexit!

Freedom of movement is awesome and will be shit for our kids when they can’t and have to be stuck in this inward looking backwards hell hole. We are loosing so many skills and so much higher education funding not to mention the slow drift of large rich corporations into the EU already.

Looking forward to the shit storm when it becomes difficult for us to trade with the EU and our economy sinks further.

Brexit will be a disaster for ordinary British people and I have no doubt we will be poorer in many ways. However if you are very wealthy and hold a second European citizenship you have nothing to worry about.

Op, FOM applies to EU citizens and restrictions have always been possible if the host country installs them. So are you concerned about Eastern European EU citizens coming here and exercising their FOM rights or are you concerned about non EU citizens somehow blagging their way into getting EU citizenship and then coming here exercising their FOM rights as EU citizens?

I would like a considered orderly Brexit

That comment is nearly as hilarious as watching Sean Lock on Cats Does Countdown.

But I still think you're missing the point here - tighter border checks in Germany will not stop freedom of movement, as unless people have criminal convictions etc, they will still pass the tougher border checks. These checks are to target illegal migration, which is from non EU nationals

We are NOT for the second time, talking about non EU immigration.
Germany are considering putting border checks on German borders and tightening their own policies.
This will affect freedom of movement, of course, and this will change everything.
At the moment anyone inside the EU can travel anywhere, this may change

@watchingwithinterest

You seem to be misunderstanding things.

FoM means the right to live and work in any EU country, not the freedom just to travel between countries. FoM will not be removed from the four pillars - it is fundamental to the EU.

The issue in Germany only concerns non-EU citizens - the politicians in Bavaria want to impose entry restrictions on non-EU migrants entering Germany, which for those coming from the south usually happens through Bavaria. FWIW, there have been frequent border checks over the last two years at the Brenner Pass (between Italy and Austria), at Kufstein and Salzburg (between Austria and Germany) between Germany and Denmark and between Denmark and Sweden, where everyone has had to show their passports when crossing these borders. Germany is not tightening the policy towards EU citizens, therefore FoM is not affected.

So you would see us accepting hundreds of thousands of economic migrants from the EU on top of the millions we have already accepted within the EU?

The UK is the only EU country that does not impose the 3-month rule on 'economic migrants' from other EU countries. This is entirely down to the Home Office - whose longest serving recent home secretary was one Theresa May, who in addition to not imposing the 3-month rule also slashed the funding for the Border Force and sacked its head when he had the temerity to tell her that her actions were making their job impossible.

whose longest serving recent home secretary was one Theresa May, who in addition to not imposing the 3-month rule also slashed the funding for the Border Force and sacked its head when he had the temerity to tell her that her actions were making their job impossible.

Two months before the referendum, she also very clearly said that the UK has control over its borders.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-36123367/theresa-may-we-have-control-of-our-borders

watching exactly. I feel like laughing when people - remainers - are outraged about schools/housing/doctors surgeries.

What the hell do people think will happen with immigration at the level it is?!

David Cameron tried to negotiate with Juncker and couldn’t.

If you don’t like leaving the EU then blame tony Blair!!!

I wouldn't worry too much about doctors surgeries, the HO has just had to relax the rules on letting doctors from outside the EU work in the U.K., following serious concerns about the fall off of EU staff. Immigration is still going to cover our health care needs.

I think if there was restrictions on migration, that would satisfy many of those who voted Leave. Most people would in fact support remaining in the customs union when they realised it would give a level of price stability and would avoid long queues when they go on holiday via the Channel Tunnel or ferries.

MongerTruffle

But what people shouldn’t have is the freedom to claim social housing or welfare

I have said this many times before, but I will continue to say this until it gets through to people. EU member states have the right to deport EEA and Swiss citizens who have become a burden on the welfare system of the host country. This is generally after three months without a job. The UK has decided not to implement this, except for a few isolated cases. That is not the EU's fault.

And yes, I would be very happy if we had completely free movement within the EEA and Switzerland, and if the UK joined the Schengen Area and the Eurozone, but that is clearly never going to happen.
we shouldn’t need to deport they just shouldn’t be able to claim in the first place freedom to move but not freedom to access public facility like housing of welfare you wouldn’t immigrate to the US of you had nowhere to live or no job so why the fuck should anyone feel entitled to move to France with not a penny to their name or from Poland to here and let’s face it the disparity in living standards means the traffic was only ever going to be one way from Eastern Europe also as a black person I never actually experienced much overt rascim until Eastern Europeans starting arriving

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow - people were complaining about this sort of thing in the 80s. Only they were complaining about immigrants from non-EU countries as the reason for it.
Maybe we need to look at doing health, education and social housing in a different way?

If the immigration were more selective it may well be that some coming from Syria perhaps are doctors, nurses etc. As said FoM has not been implemented properly in the UK but could be done at the drop of a hat.
Although the UK resists, having ID cards is actually a fair idea. It feels a bit strange needing one, having come from Britain, but it makes a lot of sense. If challenged you get an 'instant' OK from the police (I hope!) but it means that others who are overstaying, if they should only be there for 3 Months can be escorted out. It also helps with security in many other instances and is no more hassle than your credit cards. It is a 'luxury' that border controls are in most places an array of cameras with vehicle recognition so nipping from France through Belgium to Holland can be done at 80MPH (130KPH).
As the UK has almost the highest number of CCTV installations, if it were to implement an ID card and really check the ports/airports (logging those arriving) finding them would be relatively easy.
As noted you need to have ID and get certified you are working, particularly in Belgium and the 'trail' means that if you are in breach you will be out.
It is also a myth that Britain is only a small overcrowded island. There is plenty of space but big landowners (the crown etc) prevent much of it being accessed.

Maybe auntibasil, but since 2004, huge numbers of people have come to the U.K. from the former eastern block countries. They are lovely and hard working but there have been too many. We can’t support it.

If this had actually been discussed during the campaign, with possible solutions, we might not be leaving the EU

It is the pro-EU people I notice moan most about it and I can’t fathom why they cannot connect the two.

If immigrants of any flavour are paying into the UK tax system (and not claiming benefits) they are effectively self supporting and not a burden as such. They COULD be viewed as 'better' citizens than English nationals who don't work and depend on the state and benefits.

Yes but there are far too many of them. We can’t aupport it.

I’m fed up with green belt land being built on, I’m fed up with the fact that there are 40 kids in my daughters class, a third of whom don’t have English as a first language, fed up with the fact that so much extra support is available for kids needing language help but not enough for those with other issues, fed up that even at A and E there are people who haven’t registered with a GP and are there for minor complaints. Fed up that the wage growth at the lower end is suppressed and fed up with the fact that bright young things from The Eastern European countries are here having to clean bloody toilets.

The whole thing is just shite