Should Paternity testing be mandatory?

[mholz]

Considering its Father's day, to cut stress on social welfare; should paternity testing be made mandatory to encourage fairness on Child support payments and to call out deadbeat dads.

Well I'm happily married, got 2 kids, one looks just like DH brother and sister, the other looks just like him. Not that people who don't look like their kids aren't related to them, but you know, it's a bit of a clue when it is there.

So this £200 for paternity testing is going to achieve what, exactly?

Also agree that the real issue with child support is not men who ? paternity but men who cba to pay.

So, not going to help with child poverty is it.

Man A >> these kids that you thought are yours, are yours, will you pay? No. OK then.
Man B >> these kids aren't yours. In fact they are Man C's. Man C, will you pay? No. OK then.

The whole thing is also based on an idea that women lying about paternity is more common and more important than men who know full well the kids are theirs, not supporting them. This idea is not true. It is in fact just an expression of the paranoia around paternity that has led to the subjugation of women all over the world for ?1000's of years and still goes on to a massive extent in lots of places leading to things like fgm, child marriage, extreme restriction on women's freedom e.g. afghanistan under taleban, saudi arabia.

The data is notoriously sketchy so it’s tough to make hard assertions you’ll see statistics as low as 2% and as high as 30%. The higher figure is only amongst men who suspect they are not the father, so it’s a self selecting group.

In France it’s actually illegal for a man to seek to establish paternity through DNA testing. Given this is something that would establish an equity between the sexes why not do it? I am deeply suspicious of any women who wishes to retain the right to deceive in these circumstances.

If you want a clear and easy way to understand this from the male pov consider shroedingers rapist by way of analogy. Most men aren’t rapists, but you have no way of knowing so of course it’s wise to be skeptical of a man’s intentions. In the same way women who commit paternity fraud are indistinguishable from the general large majority of women who would never dream of doing something so horrendous.

Thinking about it it’s a travesty that this kind of fraud isn’t criminal, and carries with it a custodial sentence.

But if the man disputes paternity then CMS permit testing before he is being made to pay anything. And even after it's proven he is the father, a lot of them don't pay and nothing is done about that so what would be the point of what you suggest?

Other than to tarnish all women as liars and worse which I guess is the goal here.

TransExclusionaryMRA So you expect any woman to accept you'll demand a paternity test regardless of the situation? If you're separated that's already an option anyway.

What about all the men that don't pay for their children?

Thinking about it,

Of course there are families where the kids are not the dad's.

We also have a not small issue around male violence.

How will women and children be protected from the reactions of some men to the results of these tests?

It's got to be a consideration.

Easier just to run your personal life in such a way that if you are pregnant you know who the father is, I should think.

My friend works at a blood bank and says its shocking how many children are not fathers child. They dont say anything. Can of worms not to open i think so yabu op

Are there any tests that women can have done on men to check if they are arseholes before settling down / having children with them?

That would be much more useful

What about tests on men to see if they are off shagging or not? Which is effectively what this test bein asked for is about.

No fucking way. I wouldn’t have my kids tested like this. Very unfair. If he has strong grounds to suspect not his then perhaps he could go through courts but I would be very unhappy at giving kids dna to some national database. Total invasion of privacy.

Are there any tests that women can have done on men to check if they are arseholes before settling down / having children with them?

This!

Possible things - he has a crazy crazy ex, he left his ex while she was pregnant/a few weeks post partum, he lives with his parents post aprx 25 - I’m sure others will think of more!!

YANBU
It should an offence to trick somone into thinking a childs theirs and making them pay. One of my close friends has recently found out the child hes rasing isnt his, he loves them but is absolutely heartbroken, what their mother did was such a cruel and twisted thing but of course the poor child is probably never going to find this out.
I know the children of my father is who I say he is so would have no problem with a mandatory DNA test

Wow some classic DARVO going on here! No wonder you guys find it so annoying, but it’s quite eye opening how many of you are willing to reinforce a woman’s right to defraud men! As that is what is being demonstrated here. I also note your complete lack of awareness of an individual child’s right to know their biological parent. I get you don’t like men very much the misandry is practically dripping from this thread, so I’ll take it as a given you don’t care for men, so at least think of the children...

Yes, also to call out dead beat mothers.

Don't really see how DNA testing will cut social welfare? Especially given that any maintenance a single parent recieves is disregarded in benefit calculations.

Most fathers not paying/seeing the children are doing that because they are crap fathers not generally because they really think they aren't the bio dad.

And in the case of a one night stand or fling as such CMS currently works that the mother will name the father, then that man has to prove he isn't the father via a DNA, if he is then he pays the costs of the test, I had a friend in that situation.

TransExclusionaryMRA And when it's proven the man is the father, then what measures should be taken to ensure he actually pays maintenance?

Also, generally a relationship implies trust so I implicitly trust DP and expect the same courtesy back.

I have to agree with

The majority of the time they KNOW they're the father.

It insinuates women are all liars and fecklessly having unprotected sex and getting pregnant with no consideration of the consequences.

They're not paying because they KNOW they can get away with it! Because the cms (as the csa before them) DON'T do their job, require constant chasing and threats to do the minimum. They have a few sanctions available to them for non-payers - which they very rarely employ.

I agree with the oft suggested idea that all NRP's should have their income garnished at source, if it can't be garnished, state pays child support and NRP has to repay it (bloody bet govt WILL pursue them then!!)

No legit reason why this can't be done. All working people's income is known to HMRC employees and self employed. Those in receipt of benefits - tax credits administered by hmrc also, other govt depts administer the rest. Much as I hate UC, one plus would be it's possible to garnish child support at source here too.

Make it a CRIME not a civil offence not to pay.

There's already a process in place to enforce testing if they try to avoid paying by claiming the child isn't theirs anyway.

"What provision are you making for donor sperm and IVF procedures?" Excellent point! And adopted children? Surrogacy?

I'm far more in favour of closing the loopholes deadbeats use to reduce/avoid payment, like refusing to work, being 'self employed' and only 'paying' themselves nmw while lifting massive dividends they live on (living in huge houses, with flash cars etc yet pleading poverty when it comes to paying child support 😡).

"Why would your dna being stored in a way bother anyone" seriously? Because it could be used to frame people (go against the govt - find yourself framed for murder or a terrorist plot! Or even just to discredit you by 'placing' you within an organisation or place contrary to your ethics), used to develop weaponry, used in fertility treatments or medically against your wishes, used to deny you health insurance or life assurance, used to deny you treatment (REALLY wouldn't put it past this lot to do this!) they can learn your genetic weaknesses and exploit this, sheer incompetence leading to the info falling into the wrong hands! Hell they can't even keep our medical records safe now!! Go watch Gattaca, read 1984 and animal farm.

We're already living in an Orwellian nightmare in several ways!

My dd is clearly my ex's, he has never denied this and even before we split his mum joked he couldn't deny it as she is absolute spit of him! Not only in looks but mannerisms too. He NEVER paid regularly or in full. Quick off top of my head calculation he's about £25-20k short in what he paid! Dna test would have made NO difference as he never even questioned paternity. He's just a selfish shit!

@FASH84 I haven't watched csi in my life. Your previous parageaph would have sufficed or are you not able to answer a legitimate question with a snide remark?

upsideup how long do you want them to got to prison for?

*without

This is an utter derail either it is an ethical violation to name the wrong father or it isn’t. You do know that NRP’s who are women are MORE likely to dodge paying any maintenance at all, so stop making this about all the evil men who fuck off.

In fact this entire discussion is a slander to men for as much as you guys harp on about the gender pay gap nearly nothing is mentioned of the gender tax gap. Men pay more in taxes and tend to take less out in benefits. Thusly men are overwhelmingly actually providing for the nations impoverished children. Men who have no children of their own are picking up the tab, and by and large this carries on without complaint. Yet STILL you want to make out men as a class are evil and vile.

I’ll give you male violence particularly sexual violence. That is clearly a problem we have yet to successfully fix, and for my part I’m sorry we haven’t done so, but ffs men are not just walking cash machines that exist for your benefit. You rightly talk of the objectification of women, but objectification isn’t a one way problem. A lot of you objectify us as simple resource dispensing machines.

If pp is right and 30% if children are being brought up by someone who isn't their father because of fraud by the mother, and those mothers go to prison, that's an awful lot of children being taken into care. Obviously the man bringing them up has no responsibility for them, and the mother can't look after them because of being in prison, so care?

That really isn't the best option for a child.

Again, as has been mentioned several times, if a couple split up and a man has doubts, he can request a test. If he's not the father he doesn't pay anything.

If a man fundamentally doesn't trust his partner to the extent of believing the children aren't his, they should split up anyway as he clearly doesn't trust her so doesn't have a relationship worth the name.

Well, they're required to pay as they fathered a child and can't be bothered to do any more.

The vast majority of single parents are women (90% I believe), the minority of single fathers are often widowers so your facts aren't really representative of most mothers.

This whole proposal is ludicrous, it's not just a debate what should happen to women that trick men into paying for a child that's not theirs.

Any man who is named as a father when a claim is made via CMS and who denies paternity is offered a DNA test. They must pay up front if they deny paternity but if it is found that they are not the father the cost is refunded.

CMS doesn't pay out much in refund fees funnliy enough. And when the blokes learn that they have to turn up to a doctor's surgery with photo ID/a passport a lot of them suddenly refuse the test and just pay up. Funny that.

My friends ex thought he could get his mate to turn up and pretend to be him. Only CMS had asked her for a photo of him so the surgery could check it was him who turned up for the DNA test. He sent his idiot mate who looked nothing like him. They refused to carry out the test and he ended up admitting paternity and paying maintenance. A pittance but better than nothing.

This was some years back. These days both would be prosecuted for fraud. And plenty of blokes have been sent to prison for trying to fake DNA tests to try and show they are not the father.

Maybe we should turn the OP's question on it's head? Yes, lets test paternity in every case so the feckless fathers can't get out of paying maintenance!

If you are going to take a DNA sample from 1/2 the population then you might as well take it from everyone, man and woman and let the police have it as a crime database. That were certainly help with the crime resolution rate.

You can be 100% that if the DNA is taken from everyman in the country then the politicians will give the police access to it at some point so it might as well be everyone.